Anti-Streetcar Petition Drive Fails
Streetcar opponents failed to get enough signatures in 60 days; now say they’ll relaunch drive in May.
Wow, what an anti-climax.
The much-ballyhooed drive to get at least 31,000 signatures from city voters to force a binding referendum for any streetcar project of more than $20 million has failed, as Sean Ryan of the Business Journal has reported.
Chris Kliesmet of the CR Network, which organized the petition drive, had declared that “sentiment in the city is wildly against” the streetcar. And the effort had assistance from the Koch Brothers-Funded Americans for Prosperity, which provided paid staff and volunteers to help it.
Yet the drive fell 6,000 votes short, according to Orville Seymer, longtime co-leader of the CRG. He continued to insist to the Business Journal that there was “overwhelming” opposition to the streetcar, but blamed the cold weather for the drive’s failure.
CRG originally planned to have the signatures in time for the February Common Council vote on the streetcar (which approved it) and then extended the deadline to March 5. Now Kliesmet and company plan to start anew in May. As Kliesmet put it in his email, “Now that artificial deadlines connected to the dates of any particularly vote are moot, there really are no restrictions on a petition.”
CRG and their pro-bono lawyer Rick Esenberg have argued that even if Milwaukee has already started work on the streetcar, the petition drive, should it ever succeed, could still force the city to delay the project until a referendum on it occurs.
By contrast, a legal opinion by City Attorney Grant Langley suggested the council’s vote in July 2011 approving an early version of the streetcar project could make the petition drive moot, even if the signatures had been gotten before the February 2015 vote that gave final approval to the streetcar.
The call for a referendum actually goes back to July 2011, when streetcar opponent and alderman Bob Donovan argued in favor of it. “I from day one have asked for a referendum,” he told the Milwaukee Journal Sentinel today. Which raises the question why the CRG Network, which says it launched the drive on Donovan’s behalf, waited until January 2015 to do so.
The failure of that drive would seem to add difficulties for Esenberg or any lawyer attempting to argue that a second attempt, should it succeed, has legal validity. By this summer, when the petition would be presented, the city would have already spent considerable money planning the streetcar. Esenberg would presumably have to argue that in cold-weather Milwaukee, any petition drive launched during our rather lengthy winter should get a second chance, even if means taxpayer dollars are wasted as a result. That should make for an interesting day in court.
Update 10 a.m. March 6: CRG Network has released a press release saying the petition drive actually got 30,000 signatures but was 5,000 short of its goal of 35,000 signatures (which would have provided 4,000 extra signatures in case many get invalidated). I emailed Kliesmet regarding this inconsistency with the earlier figure (6,000 short) provided by Seymer and have not received a reply. The CRG press release also notes the impact of the “brutally cold weather” it faced and how much better the drive did on one exceptional winter day with a temperature of 42 degrees. For some reason global climate change was left out of the discussion.
Ald. Bob Donovan also released a press release promising that the war against the streetcar is far from over. “Make no mistake,” Donovan thundered, “this is not a retreat but a strategic withdrawal. We will regroup, and we will live to fight another day.” But preferably on a day with balmy temperatures.
Streetcar Maps and Renderings
Urban Milwaukee Streetcar Coverage
- Streetcar Signing Is Quite a Celebration – Michael Horne – February 13th, 2015
- Milwaukee Streetcar Approved – Jeramey Jannene – February 10th, 2015
- Who’s Lobbying for the Streetcar – Bruce Murphy – February 5th, 2015
- Will Streetcar Help the Inner City? – Bruce Thompson – February 4th, 2015
- City Attorney Says Streetcar Petitions Might be Moot – Bruce Murphy – January 30th, 2015
- Millennials And The Streetcar – Bruce Thompson – January 27th, 2015
- Streetcar Responses Show Wide Support – Jeramey Jannene – January 22nd, 2015
- Streetcar Approved, but Held – Jeramey Jannene – January 21st, 2015
- Koch-Funded Group Backs Anti-Streetcar Drive – Bruce Murphy – January 20th, 2015
- Streetcar Backers Say They Have the Votes – Jeramey Jannene – January 20th, 2015
- Who is Funding the Anti-Streetcar Effort? – Bruce Murphy – January 20th, 2015
- Will Anti-Streetcar Referendum Succeed? – Bruce Murphy – January 9th, 2015
- The Story Behind the Streetcar Referendum – Michael Horne and Bruce Murphy – January 8th, 2015
- Council Delays Streetcar Until January – Jeramey Jannene – December 16th, 2014
- Committee Takes No Action on Streetcar – Jeramey Jannene – December 10th, 2014
- Committee Approves Milwaukee Streetcar – Jeramey Jannene – December 9th, 2014
- RACM Approves Tax Funding for Streetcar – Michael Horne – December 8th, 2014
- How to Sell the Streetcar – Michael Horne – November 28th, 2014
- Next Stops for the Streetcar – Michael Horne – November 24th, 2014
- Barrett Moving Forward with Streetcar – Jeramey Jannene – November 18th, 2014
- Who Will Be Streetcar Operator – Michael Horne – May 8th, 2014
- A Streetcar Named Cooperation? – Dave Reid – April 27th, 2014
- How a Streetcar Spurs Development – Angie Schmitt – November 3rd, 2013
- Streetcar Social – Michael Horne – September 12th, 2013
- Mayor Says Streetcar is a “Trojan Horse” – Michael Horne – April 17th, 2013
- Whoops, We Changed Our Mind – Dave Reid – September 27th, 2012
- Battle of the Bobs: Donovan vs Bauman Streetcar Press Conference – Jeramey Jannene – May 18th, 2012
- Important Hoan Bridge and Milwaukee Streetcar Meetings This Week – Dave Reid – November 14th, 2011
- Milwaukee Streetcar Passes Common Council – Jeramey Jannene – July 26th, 2011
- Keep the Milwaukee Streetcar Moving Forward – Jeramey Jannene – July 8th, 2011
- Milwaukee Streetcar at Apex – Jeramey Jannene – June 16th, 2011
- Milwaukee Streetcar Takes Key Step Forward – Jeramey Jannene – May 6th, 2010
- Milwaukee Streetcar Meeting This Thursday – Jeramey Jannene – October 5th, 2009
- Milwaukee Streetcar Routes Unveiled by Mayor Barrett – Jeramey Jannene – September 21st, 2009
- Milwaukee Streetcar Round-Up – Jeramey Jannene – April 19th, 2009
- Vote for your Favorite Milwaukee Streetcar Route – Jeramey Jannene – March 25th, 2009
- Design Your Own Streetcar Route – Jeramey Jannene – March 23rd, 2009
- Streetcars Coming to Milwaukee – Dave Reid – March 14th, 2009
More about the Milwaukee Streetcar
For more project details, including the project timeline, financing, route and possible extensions, see our extensive past coverage.
- Data Wonk: Not All Conservatives Oppose Streetcar - Bruce Thompson - Feb 13th, 2019
- Transportation: Track The Hop in Real Time - Jeramey Jannene - Feb 12th, 2019
- Transportation: Should the Streetcar Be Free? - Jeramey Jannene - Jan 18th, 2019
- The Hop Announces December Ridership Data - Mayor Tom Barrett - Jan 15th, 2019
- Transportation: City Extending Streetcar to Convention Center - Jeramey Jannene - Jan 8th, 2019
- Transportation: Streetcar Real Time App Coming “As Quickly As Possible” - Jeramey Jannene - Jan 8th, 2019
- The Hop Announces Holiday Hours for Christmas and New Year’s - The Hop - Dec 19th, 2018
- The Hop Announces November Ridership Data - The Hop - Dec 18th, 2018
- Eyes on Milwaukee: The Hop Has a Schedule - Jeramey Jannene - Nov 8th, 2018
- Eyes on Milwaukee: Streetcar Opens to Public - Jeramey Jannene - Nov 2nd, 2018
- Eyes on Milwaukee: 11 Things to Know Before You Ride The Hop - Jeramey Jannene - Nov 1st, 2018
- Eyes on Milwaukee: Take A Virtual Ride on The Hop - Jeramey Jannene - Oct 29th, 2018
- Eyes on Milwaukee: When Will The Hop Have a Schedule? - Jeramey Jannene - Oct 25th, 2018
- Eyes on Milwaukee: Streetcar On Time and On Budget - Jeramey Jannene - Oct 25th, 2018
- Eyes on Milwaukee: New Development Plans for Streetcar - Jeramey Jannene - Oct 23rd, 2018
- Eyes on Milwaukee: City Engaging Businesses Along The Hop Route - Jeramey Jannene - Oct 22nd, 2018
- Eyes on Milwaukee: Streetcar Suffers First Collision - Jeramey Jannene - Oct 9th, 2018
- ‘Hop-able’ Open House Slated for October 10 - The Hop - Oct 4th, 2018
- Property Values Climb Along The Hop Streetcar Route - City of Milwaukee - Oct 2nd, 2018
- Eyes on Milwaukee: Streetcar Service Starts November 2nd - Jeramey Jannene - Sep 28th, 2018
- Fifth and Final Milwaukee Streetcar Vehicle Due to Arrive Tomorrow - City of Milwaukee Dept. of Public Works - Sep 6th, 2018
- Promises Not Kept - Ald. Bob Donovan - Aug 28th, 2018
- Norquist: Why Milwaukee Needs a Streetcar - John Norquist - Aug 24th, 2018
- Streetcar Called “Disaster” - Ald. Mark Borkowski - Aug 17th, 2018
- Third Milwaukee Streetcar Vehicle Due to Arrive on Thursday, July 26, 2018 - City of Milwaukee Dept. of Public Works - Jul 24th, 2018
- Hop on The Hop at Bastille Days This Weekend - City of Milwaukee Dept. of Public Works - Jul 13th, 2018
- Eyes on Milwaukee: Streetcar Starts Widespread Testing - Jeramey Jannene - Jun 19th, 2018
- Public Invited to Hop on Board The Hop at Streetcar Open House - Mayor Tom Barrett - May 25th, 2018
- Eyes on Milwaukee: Renderings for Streetcar Extensions - Jeramey Jannene - May 23rd, 2018
- Eyes on Milwaukee: City Advances Streetcar Extension Plans - Jeramey Jannene - May 22nd, 2018
- Second Milwaukee Streetcar Vehicle Due to Arrive on Monday, May 14, 2018 - City of Milwaukee Dept. of Public Works - May 11th, 2018
- Jobs Fair for Milwaukee Streetcar Positions Set for Wednesday, May 2 at Maintenance Facility - City of Milwaukee Dept. of Public Works - Apr 26th, 2018
- Plenty of Horne: Streetcar Barn is Hopping - Michael Horne - Apr 6th, 2018
- Eyes on Milwaukee: City Presents First Streetcar - Jeramey Jannene - Mar 26th, 2018
- First Milwaukee Streetcar Vehicle Has Departed Manufacturer In Pennsylvania, Due to Arrive At New Home Early Next Week - City of Milwaukee Dept. of Public Works - Mar 23rd, 2018
- Eyes on Milwaukee: First Streetcar Heading to Milwaukee - Jeramey Jannene - Mar 16th, 2018
- Join Us Tonight For The Third Community Workshop For The Moving Milwaukee Forward Study - City of Milwaukee - Jan 31st, 2018
- Bastille Days announces new footprint for 2018 festival - East Town Association - Jan 25th, 2018
- Op Ed: Don’t Make Streetcar Rides Free - Jay Bullock - Jan 2nd, 2018
- Eyes on Milwaukee: $65 Million Spent on Streetcar - Jeramey Jannene - Dec 18th, 2017
- Transit Workers Union Announces Milwaukee Streetcar Labor Peace Agreement - Amalgamated Transit Union Local 998 - Dec 1st, 2017
- Plenty of Horne: How Will Streetcar Stops Be Designed? - Michael Horne - Nov 27th, 2017
- City of Milwaukee Issues RFP For Milwaukee Streetcar Marketing Services - City of Milwaukee Dept. of Public Works - Nov 21st, 2017
- Eyes on Milwaukee: Who Wants To Market The Streetcar? - Jeramey Jannene - Nov 20th, 2017
- Will Streetcar Gentrify Bronzeville? - Elliot Hughes - Nov 8th, 2017
- Eyes on Milwaukee: City Holding Streetcar Planning Meetings Saturday - Jeramey Jannene - Nov 3rd, 2017
- Eyes on Milwaukee: See Streetcar Floors Made Locally - Jeramey Jannene - Oct 26th, 2017
- New poll shows Milwaukee area’s divided feelings on Foxconn, views on other topics as Marquette Law School launches expanded public policy program - Marquette University - Oct 24th, 2017
- Mayor Barrett needs to start listening to the people - Ald. Bob Donovan - Oct 24th, 2017
- Mayor’s Chief of Staff Responds to Ald. Zielinski - Patrick Curley - Oct 24th, 2017
- Eyes on Milwaukee: Zielinski Again Attacks Mayor, Streetcar - Jeramey Jannene - Oct 24th, 2017
- Ald. Zielinski: Mayor diverts additional funding for streetcar that could go to more cops - Ald. Tony Zielinski - Oct 23rd, 2017
- Eyes on Milwaukee: Potawatomi Gives $10 Million To Streetcar - Jeramey Jannene - Oct 6th, 2017
- City and Potawatomi strike 12-year, $10 million streetcar presenting sponsorship agreement, includes free rides for the first 12 months - City of Milwaukee - Oct 6th, 2017
- How Streetcar Could Change King Drive - Elizabeth Baker - Oct 5th, 2017
- The Streetcar, Public Safety and Our Budget Crisis An Honest Assessment of Milwaukee’s Status Quo - Ald. Bob Donovan - Oct 4th, 2017
- Alderman Zielinski tells Mayor Barrett: Cut the streetcar, don’t cut protective services - Ald. Tony Zielinski - Sep 27th, 2017
- Eyes on Milwaukee: Republicans Heap Hate On Streetcar - Jeramey Jannene - Sep 7th, 2017
- Eyes on Milwaukee: City Chooses Streetcar Operator - Jeramey Jannene - Sep 6th, 2017
- Milwaukee Streetcar Construction on Target to Meet Residential Preference Program, DBE Goals - City of Milwaukee Dept. of Public Works - Jul 21st, 2017
- Friday Photos: Streetcar Tracks Getting Road Tested - Jeramey Jannene - Jun 30th, 2017
- Eyes on Milwaukee: $30 Million Spent on Streetcar - Jeramey Jannene - May 19th, 2017
- Eyes on Milwaukee: Streetcar Track Getting Installed - Jeramey Jannene - May 12th, 2017
- Eyes on Milwaukee: County Gets Waiver on Streetcar - Jeramey Jannene - Apr 17th, 2017
- Eyes on Milwaukee: Streetcar Rails Being Welded - Jeramey Jannene - Apr 7th, 2017
- Eyes on Milwaukee: City Won’t Delay Streetcar for County - Jeramey Jannene - Mar 28th, 2017
- Eyes on Milwaukee: County Board Okays Bid for Streetcar - Jeramey Jannene - Mar 23rd, 2017
- Eyes on Milwaukee: Streetcar Track Steel Has Arrived - Jeramey Jannene - Mar 16th, 2017
- Eyes on Milwaukee: Should County Operate Streetcar? - Jeramey Jannene - Mar 8th, 2017
- Eyes on Milwaukee: Streetcar Track Construction Starts in April - Jeramey Jannene - Feb 17th, 2017
- Streetsblog: 80 Transit Projects in 2017 - Angie Schmitt - Feb 6th, 2017
- Eyes on Milwaukee: The Milwaukee Streetcar is Hiring - Jeramey Jannene - Jan 20th, 2017
- Eyes on Milwaukee: Streetcar Project Receives Federal Grant - Jeramey Jannene - Oct 12th, 2016
- Eyes on Milwaukee: Cincinnati Streetcar Opens - Jeramey Jannene - Sep 19th, 2016
- Eyes on Milwaukee: Council Okays Streetcar to Bucks Arena - Jeramey Jannene - Jul 6th, 2016
- Eyes on Milwaukee: $6.5 Million in Streetcar Savings - Jeramey Jannene - Feb 26th, 2016
- Eyes on Milwaukee: Donovan Lies About Streetcar Suit - Jeramey Jannene - Feb 15th, 2016
- Eyes on Milwaukee: BID Sells Streetcar-Related Development - Jeramey Jannene - Jan 15th, 2016
- Murphy’s Law: Do Millennials Oppose the Streetcar? - Bruce Murphy - Dec 15th, 2015
- Eyes on Milwaukee: Pennsylvania Company Wins Streetcar Contract - Jeramey Jannene - Nov 13th, 2015
- Plenty of Horne: City Accepts $14 Million Federal Streetcar Grant - Michael Horne - Oct 29th, 2015
- Milwaukee to Receive $14.2 Million Grant for Streetcar Extension - Mayor Tom Barrett - Oct 26th, 2015
- Back in the News: Anti-Streetcar Petition Dies - Bruce Murphy - Aug 28th, 2015
- Eyes on Milwaukee: Scott Walker Aids Milwaukee Streetcar - Jeramey Jannene - Jul 13th, 2015
- Eyes on Milwaukee: Streetcar Construction Starts in October - Jeramey Jannene - Jul 10th, 2015
- Murphy’s Law: The Strange Politics of Anti-Streetcar-ites - Bruce Murphy - Jun 18th, 2015
- Plenty of Horne: Bucks Plan Envisions Arena Streetcar - Michael Horne - Apr 8th, 2015
- A Short History of Milwaukee’s Old Streetcar System - Ken Smith - Mar 31st, 2015
- Plenty of Horne: Davis Sets, Cancels Meeting on Streetcar - Michael Horne - Mar 17th, 2015
- Back in the News: Anti-Streetcar Petition Drive Fails - Bruce Murphy - Mar 5th, 2015
- Friday Photos: Streetcar Signing Is Quite a Celebration - Michael Horne - Feb 13th, 2015
- Eyes on Milwaukee: Milwaukee Streetcar Approved - Jeramey Jannene - Feb 10th, 2015
- Murphy’s Law: Who is “Lobbying” For the Streetcar? - Bruce Murphy - Feb 5th, 2015
- Data Wonk: Will Streetcar Help The Inner City? - Bruce Thompson - Feb 4th, 2015
- Back in the News: City Attorney Says Streetcar Petitions Might be Moot - Bruce Murphy - Jan 30th, 2015
- Data Wonk: Millennials And The Streetcar - Bruce Thompson - Jan 27th, 2015
- Op-Ed: Why I Support the Streetcar - Russell Rossetto - Jan 26th, 2015
- Eyes on Milwaukee: Streetcar Responses Shows Wide Support - Jeramey Jannene - Jan 22nd, 2015
- Eyes on Milwaukee: Streetcar Approved, but Held - Jeramey Jannene - Jan 21st, 2015
- Murphy’s Law: Koch-Funded Group Backs Anti-Streetcar Drive - Bruce Murphy - Jan 20th, 2015
- Eyes on Milwaukee: Streetcar Backers Say They Have the Votes - Jeramey Jannene - Jan 20th, 2015
- Murphy’s Law: Who Is Funding the Anti-Streetcar Effort? - Bruce Murphy - Jan 20th, 2015
- Op Ed: Why the Streetcar Won’t Work - Samuel Jensen - Jan 14th, 2015
- Murphy’s Law: Will Anti-Streetcar Referendum Succeed? - Bruce Murphy - Jan 9th, 2015
- The Story Behind the Streetcar Referendum - Michael Horne and Bruce Murphy - Jan 8th, 2015
- Eyes on Milwaukee: Council Delays Streetcar Until January - Jeramey Jannene - Dec 16th, 2014
- Eyes on Milwaukee: Committee Takes No Action on Streetcar - Jeramey Jannene - Dec 10th, 2014
- Eyes on Milwaukee: Committee Approves Milwaukee Streetcar - Jeramey Jannene - Dec 9th, 2014
- Plenty of Horne: RACM Approves Tax Funding for Streetcar - Michael Horne - Dec 2nd, 2014
- Plenty of Horne: How to Sell the Streetcar - Michael Horne - Nov 28th, 2014
- Plenty of Horne: Next Stops For The Streetcar - Michael Horne - Nov 24th, 2014
- Eyes on Milwaukee: Barrett Moving Forward With Streetcar - Jeramey Jannene - Nov 18th, 2014
- Plenty of Horne: Who Will Be Streetcar Operator? - Michael Horne - May 8th, 2014
- Back in the News: A Streetcar Named Cooperation? - Dave Reid - Apr 27th, 2014
- Streetsblog: How a Streetcar Spurs Development - Angie Schmitt - Nov 3rd, 2013
- Plenty of Horne: Streetcar Social - Michael Horne - Sep 12th, 2013
- Republicans Move to Kill Milwaukee Streetcar - Jeramey Jannene - May 9th, 2013
- Plenty of Horne: Mayor Says Streetcar is “Trojan Horse” - Michael Horne - Apr 17th, 2013
- Streetcar Meeting on Tuesday - Jeramey Jannene - Oct 29th, 2012
- Whoops, We Changed Our Mind - Dave Reid - Sep 27th, 2012
- Donovan’s New Anti-Streetcar Allies - Jeramey Jannene - Aug 16th, 2012
- Battle of the Bobs: Donovan vs Bauman Streetcar Press Conference - Jeramey Jannene - May 18th, 2012
- Milwaukee Streetcar Hearing at Frontier Airlines Center - Jeramey Jannene - Nov 15th, 2011
- Important Hoan Bridge and Milwaukee Streetcar Meetings this Week - Dave Reid - Nov 14th, 2011
- Milwaukee Streetcar Passes Common Council, Proceeds to Final Engineering - Jeramey Jannene - Jul 26th, 2011
- Alderman Donovan Proposes Delaying the Streetcar Project - Dave Reid - Jul 19th, 2011
- Barrett says Streetcar is an investment in growing Milwaukee - Patti Wenzel - Jul 13th, 2011
- Keep the Milwaukee Streetcar Moving Forward - Jeramey Jannene - Jul 8th, 2011
- Milwaukee Streetcar at Apex - Jeramey Jannene - Jun 16th, 2011
- Milwaukee Streetcar Takes Key Step Forward - Jeramey Jannene - May 6th, 2010
- Streetcars and Trams Around the World - Dave Reid - Feb 1st, 2010
- Milwaukee Streetcar Meeting This Thursday - Jeramey Jannene - Oct 5th, 2009
- Downtown Streetcar Open House - Jeramey Jannene - Sep 23rd, 2009
- Milwaukee Streetcar Routes Unveiled by Mayor Barrett - Jeramey Jannene - Sep 21st, 2009
- Common Council Creates Streetcar Committee - Dave Reid - Jun 18th, 2009
- Milwaukee Streetcar Round-Up - Jeramey Jannene - Apr 19th, 2009
- Vote For Your Favorite Milwaukee Streetcar Route - Jeramey Jannene - Mar 25th, 2009
- Design Your Own Streetcar Route - Jeramey Jannene - Mar 23rd, 2009
- Milwaukee Streetcar Map - Jeramey Jannene - Mar 21st, 2009
- Streetcars Coming to Milwaukee - Dave Reid - Mar 14th, 2009
- Palomar or Streetcar? - Jeramey Jannene - Jan 22nd, 2009
Back in the News
-
Walker and the Russian Connection
Feb 12th, 2019 by Bruce Murphy
-
Foxconn Project in “Chaos”
Feb 7th, 2019 by Bruce Murphy
-
Death Watch at the Journal Sentinel
Jan 25th, 2019 by Bruce Murphy
So they had paid staff and volunteers collecting signatures, and (allegedly) significant opposition. So how exactly did the cold stop them from reaching their goal? The paid staff and volunteers didn’t work had because of the cold? People didn’t come to the door to sign because it was cold outside?
Such a sad group of people. So glad they live in Franklin and not in Milwaukee.
Could not get circulators out to ft to people. they do not go to doors, they go to various places like downtown where there are people. started great then we had the 6th coldest month in history. wish we had some Global warming. No one will stand outside and do this. The poling showed 80% opposition but no fervent opposition like Ament so we will see what happens at election time.
Come on this is Wisconsin. People are used to cold winters here. I don’t buy the “it was too cold” excuse. Just be honest and say we failed.
What poll? Who conducted it? Can you please link to it here? Don’t tell me to Google it or “do my own research.”
I suspect they had far fewer than 25,000 legitimate signatures. In my swim class where the petition was circulated, not one of the signers actually lived in Milwaukee. This is a drive that started in the suburbs and had its most appeal in the suburbs. I’m sure we’ll hear soon from that voice of the Milwaukee oppressed who also lives in the suburbs as does Chris Kliesmet and Orville Seymer.
Now there’s also time for someone to sue Chris Kleismet for failing to register as a paid lobbyist and operative of the Orwellian-named Americans For Prosperity.
I had a petition worker ask me to sign, said I would be signing to vote for the “Trolley”. Which in theory is true, but is misleading in the way she worded it. I waved her off, telling her I was in favor of it and she said I could still sign. The continued to tell passerbys that she was collecting signatures for the Trolley. I’ve had other friends that had similar confusing interactions.
I never stepped on Bob Donavan s lawn, why did he have to take it out on the trolley?
WCD…… it was the 6th coldest February on record, not the 6th coldest month. You’re so fast and loose with data. Also, even though it was chilly, we only had one real snow event. Most days were kind of pleasant. Also,what polling information? The 2010 non binding referendum showed 76% in favor of the streetcar. This will give the opponents time to spread more misinformation about the project.
Still waiting for WCD to link to the poll that shows 80% opposition to the streetcar. Was it a poll Bob Donovan conducted of his relatives?
Foolish foolish people. Have you done ANY research of other cities other than Portland where streetcars are in place? They DO NOT have the ridership predicted even with free rides. If you don’t think you’ll be paying for this boondoggle even though you’ll never ride it, you are sadly mistaken. Justifying that it’s Federal dollars is nonsense. Out of the 124 MILLION dollars to create this monster, only 55 million are Federal funds. Are you willing to pay more taxes/fees for something you’ll never use? Why are so many afraid to put this on a referendum? Afraid it won’t pass.
All I have to say is hahahahahahahhahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha. Suck it, losers.
Brisls……. it’s clear we want this. Now just leave us alone.
The proponents of the streetcar seem to be against a referendum allowing the taxpayers to decide its fate. That is most likely because they fear they will lose the debate. You can see that from their snarky comments.
Lose the debate? That’s laughable. YOU lost the debate by huge margin. YOU failed to collect the measly sum of 31,000 signatures (not even 10% of eligible voters in the city, I would guess) and, despite 2 self imposed extensions, didn’t come close. YOU had mythical theories of widespread opposition and hundreds of hours of free air time on am right wing radio. YOU had Dave Sobelman and his Mayor hating friends using their businesses to promote your petty petition. All this and YOU still failed. Lost the debate? Give me a f***ing break.
Rob, apparently only streetcar proponents are the ones that remember we already had a referendum allowing the taxpayers to decide it’s fate and they would like to finally get it in the ground and hopefully expanded as soon as possible.
@Rob- Anti-streetcar referendums have already failed in far more conservative cities than Milwaukee. It’s a shoe in that the referendum would fail here. We just don’t want anymore delays. Suburbanites have been trying to kill this project for several years now. It’s been debated to exhaustion. All the huffing and puffing of Donovan and Davis and they could not deliver. Looks like people are sick of talking about this thing, just start laying some track already.
Yes and I already do the same for many other things that build a better society, including the roads that lead to your house that I’ve “never driven on” too.
As of 2012 there were about 330,000 eligible voters in the City of Milwaukee. So 31,000 is indeed less than 10% of the city’s eligible voters.
http://fox6now.com/2012/11/07/2012-voter-turnout-70-of-voters-in-wi-87-of-voters-in-milwaukee/
“It was overwhelming. The people said we cannot allow this to go forward.”- Orville Seymour.
Apparently it was so overwhelming that the equivalent of 7.8% of the voting age population signed it, of course we don’t know what percent of that group are actually Milwaukee residents. Man, talk about a landslide.
Also, I keep seeing this 80% oppose number, but have seen no poll supporting it. Can someone show me a link? I doubt it, because that number probably comes from Bob Donovan’s butt, but I’m just curious if the number is really out there, and the methodology used to get it.
This is not over by long shot. Milwaukee has so many major problems that will not be solved by Arenas, great article in Journal today blowing away the development BS, or trolleys for yuppies. will this take Milwaukee out of top ten most violent, worst poverty, worst schools, worst management, human trafficking, heroin epidemic, 57% youth unemployment? Think not and as long as it has leaders like ones on this blog it never will. need Kooyenga and Darling plus Clarke to save the day, the guys in the white hat.
WCD – “The poling showed 80% opposition”
Where is the poll? Share a link please.
@PMD I’m sure the poll is located here http://www.wisconsinconservatives.com/forum/
🙂
@Casey Either that or the poll was conducted at Bob Donovan’s house during Christmas dinner with his family.
PMD That’s a poll WCD conducted in his head. Margin of error of -/+15
Bris sez: “Foolish foolish people. Have you done ANY research of other cities other than Portland where streetcars are in place?”
Hmm, you remind me of someone but I just can’t put my finger on who? Do you have a brother that posts here?
So many people lately wanting others to do research. Must be the change in seasons.
I’m still waiting on “Frank” to get back with his proof. Do you know Frank?
@Brisls (post 11) said: “Have you done ANY research of other cities other than Portland where streetcars are in place? They DO NOT have the ridership predicted even with free rides.”
Let’s look at two other US cities that also operate new, modern streetcar systems:
• Seattle (opened 2007) Ridership has exceeded predicted levels. It has not been free since 2007.
http://mynorthwest.com/11/353067/South-Lake-Union-Streetcar-sets-ridership-record
• Tucson (opened July, 2014) Before it opened, ridership predicted at 3,600/day; it averaged 5,000/day within two months. It has not been free since its first week of operation.
https://www.azpm.org/p/home-featured/2014/9/24/44876-tucson-streetcar-riders-nearly-double-since-opening/
What about failing streetcars such as in Tampa, where nobody rides it? Or places like Arlington, VA where the county board voted to cancel a proposed streetcar? Austin’s failed streetcar proposal? San Antonio’s streetcar was 75% funded when it got the plug pulled. Although Kansas City voted to have a 2 mile city streetcar, and are taxing the downtown residents for it, the metro expansion efforts have failed. Even golden Portland was caught inflating its ridership numbers by 1.1 million rides (19%) last year. There is still a slim hope for a referendum to stop this next “Detroit People Mover” like disaster.
Chris Jacobs,
Tampa’s streetcar is very unlike Milwaukee’s. It does not use Milwaukee’s modern, low-floor vehicles, instead running relics designed back in the Model-T era. Unlike Milwaukee, Tampa’s streetcar is aimed at tourists, never running before 11 am; Milwaukee’s will serve commuters, always starting by 7:00 am (5:00 am weekdays).
In Portland, the streetcar people did not “inflate” the ridership numbers. A separate, competing transit agency (“TriMet”) double-counted some passengers. There is no reason TriMet would deliberately “inflate” numbers for a COMPETING system. It was an honest mistake (triggered by a route expansion where two lines started partly overlapping) made by people OTHER than those running or responsible for the streetcar. Once discovered by an audit, it was promptly corrected. (And even after that correction, ridership was still up.)
You also mention the Detroit People Mover. Milwaukee’s streetcar is very different from the elevated, 100% private right-of-way, People Mover. You would do better to compare Milwaukee’s streetcar to the new streetcar (called “M-1 Rail”) now being built in Detroit. Even Michigan’s right-wing governor supports it.
@Chris…… in addition to Tom’s comments, Milwaukee is not like the cities you mention in almost every way. We are a transit city, with one of the highest rider ships per capita in the Midwest. In fact, before our bus system was gutted, we had the highest ridership per capita for an all bus system in the entire country. We are much denser than all of the cities you mention and have a greater concentration of jobs in the downtown. And by the way…. who cares about Tampa and Arlington.