The Unbearable Loudness of Harley Hogs
Why are they allowed to violate noise ordinances? No one seems to know.
Harley’s 110th. Photo by Michael Horne.
This past weekend was Harley’s annual Milwaukee Rally, which typically means a surfeit of ear-splitting Harley riders rumbling explosively around town. The Harley hogs routinely violate noise ordinances in Milwaukee and its suburbs, not mention cities and towns and rural hamlets across the nation. It’s a plague of tail piping noise and air polluters.
Just how widespread is the problem? Check online and you’ll find complaints about Harley noise across the continent, from Boston to Chicago to Denver to San Francisco and from Toronto to Pennsylvania to Wilmington, North Carolina.
Even in the quietest reaches of America’s national parks, you can run into the sonic booms of Harley riders. “We heard the Harley Noise everywhere in Yellowstone National Park while trying to enjoy the solitude of such a beautiful place,” writes a member of one poor vacationing family.
You’ll find an “I Hate Harley” Facebook page and another that advises you how to handle Harley noise pollution. “Do not approach or attempt to reason with motorcycle riders,” the site warns. “When possible, take down their license plate number and call the police.”
In New York City, where 90 percent of calls to the quality-of-life hotline concern noise of all kinds, motorcyclists are subject to a $400 fine if their bikes are audible from 200 feet away. In Carefree, Arizona, riders whose engine noise exceeds 80 decibels face fines up to $750. Chicago levied a $500 fine against noisy motorcyclists.
But police in most cities have far bigger problems to deal with, and so the scofflaw Harley riders get ignored, free to continue assaulting the ears of innocent Americans everywhere.
Milwaukee, of course, presents a special case: this is the home town of Harley-Davidson, the headquarters for the Harley Museum, the hallowed soil where the Harley mythology was invented. Which of course means we get to be engulfed with more Harley Hogs and Harley noise than any other city on the planet. Call it Brew City patriotism; along with beer, brats and bowling, we must also salute that scruffily cool Harley lifestyle.
Some years ago the Milwaukee Common Council decided it had enough of those car stereo systems with the bumping basses blasting through town. The Council’s Public Safety Committee, led by Ald. Bob Donovan, naturally, approved an ordinance to go after these cars’ owners.
But as annoying as these music systems are, they aren’t nearly as loud as Harley hogs. You can typically hear one of these auto assaulters from a good block away. But a Harley hog? “That would be discernable for three or four blocks,” said Paul Biedrzycki, an environmental health expert for the City of Milwaukee Health Department, in a story I wrote some years ago for Milwaukee Magazine.
And most bikes get modified. As author Bill Rook puts it in his book, How to Build a Harley-Davidson Torque Monster, “Sooner or later almost every Harley owner will modify his or her bike.” The reality is that Harley-Davidson would sell far fewer bikes if this transformation wasn’t easy to do.
To get a feel for the loudness of Harley pipes, consider how decibels are measured. For example, 90 decibels is four times as loud as 70 decibels and 110 decibels — the noise level that just one Harley may approach — is about 16 times as loud.
For comparison’s sake, consider the jack hammering and drilling that went on as state highway construction crews redid portions of I-794. Many residents complained and Ald. Bob Bauman compared the noise to “the bombardment of Iraq.” But a story in Milwaukee Magazine found the noise didn’t get above 78 decibels.
A Harley hog would be at least 12 times louder.
Wisconsin’s state law reads: “No person shall modify the exhaust system of any such motor vehicle in a manner which will amplify or increase the noise emitted.” Meaning Harley riders are breaking the law. In Milwaukee, police can stop a vehicle if it can be heard 50 feet away. Harleys can easily be heard 1,000 feet away. But have you ever heard of a Harley rider in Milwaukee being ticketed for excessive noise? That might kill the city’s draw to Harley tourists from across the country.
“The noise ordinance is a classic example of a government regulation that is only as effective as it’s enforcement,” Bauman says. “In this case enforcement is a problem. Harley’s are not exempt but they might as well be. Never heard of a ticket being issued.”
Milwaukee Journal Sentinel reporter Rick Barrett recently wrote a tepid story on the issue that framed it as a “debate” over the need for Harley noise. Right, that so-called debate would probably pit nearly everyone in America against only Harley riders, and perhaps officials with Visit Milwaukee and the mayor’s office.
Harley riders declare that “loud pipes save lives” — that automobile drivers can’t see these motorcyclists, so the noise gives a warning. But as numerous stories on this issue have noted, traffic safety experts say there’s no research that shows a loud motorcycle helps prevent crashes with other vehicles.
Bicycles are far quieter and harder to see than motorcycles, yet in Wisconsin in 2013 and 2014, motorcyclists had 11 times more fatal crashes than bicyclists, as Urban Milwaukee’s “Bike Czar” has reported.
The idea that Harley riders are all modifying their cycles out of concern for safety is a rather rich one, considering that 75 percent of motorcyclists killed in Wisconsin weren’t wearing helmets.
A 2007 study by the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration found that motorcyclists were overwhelmingly responsible for causing accidents with passenger vehicles. In nearly three-fourths of the two-vehicle motorcycle crashes involving passenger vehicles, the motorcycle was the striking vehicle. Motorcyclists were 2.5 times more likely to be impaired by alcohol than auto drivers, were 6.8 times more likely to be speeding, and three times more likely to have an invalid license.
No, the more likely reason Harley riders all opt for loud pipes is that it’s part of the rebellious thrill of being an “outlaw” on the road. As the website “The Aging Rebel” notes, those modified pipes are an act of righteous opposition to the “noise nuts” and the dastardly government bean counters whose “noise and pollution abatement goals… are mandated by a self-righteous and distant bureaucracy.”
As the quote suggests, a modified Harley is more likely to emit air pollution along with the noise pollution. The Air Resources Board in California found that “motorcycles account for less than 1% of vehicle-miles traveled in the state yet account for 10% of passenger vehicles’ smog-forming emissions; swapping a compliant tailpipe equipped with a catalytic converter for one without emissions controls can emit as many as 10 times more smog-forming pollutants per mile.”
Motorcycles collectively emit 16 times more hydrocarbons, three times more carbon monoxide and a “disproportionately high” amount of other air pollutants compared to passenger cars, a story in Science Daily noted.
Yet we’re all supposed to be thankful when these hogs tear down the streets of our city.
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DEATH TO LOUD HARLEYS!!!! Seriously though, there are few things more obnoxious than these fools. I cannot believe the police continue to tolerate them.
This needed to be said. Whatever the other pros and cons of belonging to the Harley tribe – and to an extent, I get the appeal – the whole “loud pipes save lives” routine is embarrassing. No inner city kid with a booming subwoofer could ever front that argument and get away with it.
While I agree that some basic loudness limits should be applied to motorcycles as well as other vehicles, your article has a number of very significant errors that I can’t ignore. Often they seem deliberate.
“A Harley Hog would be at least 12 times louder.” No, you are using 100dB–Harleys are not at least 100dB. Most of them are probably 80-90dBA, even the modified ones. There are indeed excessive ones.
You state that there is no research showing loud motorcycles save lives. There are many things for which there is no research–that doesn’t mean you can discount them. Whether I like it or not, hearing them does make me more aware of their presence, and I am more aware of the need to check my blind spots. Your accusation that they don’t wear helmets is misplaced: many of them do. Please don’t stereotype. And of course more motorcycle accidents are fatal than bicycle accidents! Motorcycles travel much faster and ride on the freeway.
Your statement that motorcycles were overwhelmingly responsible for accidents is a gross misinterpretation. The motorcycle is the striking vehicle because cars don’t see them and turn in front of them.
Most of us would agree with you that loudness laws should be enforced. You don’t need to malign Harley Davidson, Harley riders, or motorcycles in general to make that point.
Bruce is now in a “witless” protection program as he and his family seek a new life away from “Harleyville” USA! Loud and obnoxious ought to be part of the “brand” but let’s face it, the answer to the question is “jobs” and economic impact!! One can always dream that the new electric “bike” will take off but it isn’t noisy enough! Sorry, Bruce.
I remember seeing a Harley dealership in Paris. The true definition of the “ugly American”.
Great article. The age of the cave man and barbarian has past and its time for politicians and law enforcement to respect and protect our rights to peace and quiet and restore our quality of life.
Nathan, in New Hampshire, the Harley cycles stopped by police were all above 100 decibels and some as high as 121. http://www.noisefree.org/newsroom/nfa-display.php?id=9
Loud pipes save lives = flourescent yellow vests save lives. You don’t see too many HD riders ditching their costumes for safety.
@Blaine
You nailed it. I passed 2 BMW motorcycles today as silent as can be. Both riders had fluorescent vests on and FULL helmets with reflective material. I had not problem seeing them.
The same with those big Honda Goldwings – they sound like the wind when they go by. No problems seeing them either.
Good article. It actually points out the root cause of all that Harley noise. It’s those illegal modifications so many Harley owners illegally perform on their state and federally regulated motorcycles and the encouragement they get to do that from the motorcycle “customization” industry and even Harley Davidson itself.
Those modifications are illegal and should be better enforced against, but that is not happening. The nonfeasance in performing that necessary function by state, local and even federal authorities also encourages those Harley Hogs to loudly violate the law and impose their unlawful ear shattering noise on the public with impunity. That is what needs to be changed.
Bruce, this story is music to my ears.
The proper test seems to me if there are less accidents involving Harleys than the other brands of motorcycles, not a comparison to bicycles. Something like bike lanes would seem to be a distinct and real factor contributing to bicycle safety, for instance.
Great article. I live in the Napa Valley of northern California. Loud motorcycles thunder up and down and around the region constantly. On weekends the noise is even worse, as loud bikes rule the roads. I have begged political officials, police, and CHP to control the noise, but they won’t do anything about it. The riders are viewed as tourists who might spend a little money at local businesses, so political pressure is exerted to have a “hands-off” policy toward this issue. What I cannot understand is that many business owners here want to create an image of Napa Valley as a beautiful place to visit, yet the noise makes the area into a sleazy dump.
I would be more than happy to reduce the noise emitting from my Harley when you cage drivers stop looking at your phones when driving. I can ride a mile pass 30 cars and every yes every single car the drivers attention is focused on the phone. I rode before cell phones and had a quiet bike. I am a sound engineer and feed my kids with my ears. My pipes are loud so I can keep providing for my children. No cell phone use when driving then the bikes will get quieter.
Hear, hear!
@fletcher
Sorry fletcher. What you need to do is take a tip from the BMW and Honda motorcycle enthusiasts who wear bright colors, full helmets, ride defensively, use a horn, and keep their headlights on. You do not have the right to harm society with your noise. That old excuse for noise is over and done with.
@blurondo – Can you repeat that? A Harley just went by and I missed what you said.
I lived in Milwaukee for forty years. The only reason I was able to tolerate the winters was because it kept the Harleys off the road. I lived for a while at the Landmark on the Lake. Harley riders loved Prospect Avenue to the west of the building, and their annual gatherings were east on the lake, making the noise from Lincoln Memorial Drive the right channel to a stereo unmuffled symphony.
When I moved back to New Jersey I lived for a while in Phillipsburg, NJ, right on the main street, facing a bridge over the Delaware from New Jersey to Easton, PA. We had a constant litany of Harleys 24 hours a day (large clubs and ad hoc groups) who loved to zoom down the main drag and take a left onto that bridge to get their asses to Pennsylvania, where there was no helmet law. I don’t think safety was their main motivation.
Also, I don’t need to hear the noise to know when they’re cutting me off on the highway.
By the way, “South Park” did a great episode about Harley riders. Look it up.
“Loud pipes save lives” is an ad slogan. Not reality. But then, so so many Harley riders swallow every last ad morsel Harley makes available to them: Harley hats, Harley goggles, Harley shirts, belts, all the way down to boots.
And they call themselves “independent” and “free thinkers.”
Harley is a sacred cow in Milwaukee. No one touches them.
amen…………
Great article, right on target. As a Houston Police Officer, I endeavored to bring peace and civility to my area of responsibility via stringent enforcement of local and State motor vehicle noise laws. I cited and, in some cases, arrested loud bikers, operators of loud automobiles and trucks; unfortunately, my lesbian Mayor and her Chief of Police were more interested in gay rights, Political Correctness, liability, Affirmative Action mandates and appeasement. Houston’s weak and impotent administration cowed to the cries of area loud bikers who insisted they were entitled and therefore above the law relevant to noise laws, domestic tranquility, respect for one’s neighbors. If you’re interested, I invite you to read my bio relevant to law enforcement in the 21st Century and my battle with the loud thug bikers of Houston, Texas. Log into Facebook and pull up my “about” page; reference the “details about you” section, https://www.facebook.com/rickey.holtsclaw/about?section=bio
As the former owner of a 2000 Harley Sportster, I totally agree. There is no reason pipes need to be modified or made louder. I don’t think my bike was very loud, but I chose to leave it as the factory made it. The salesman at Hal’s tried to convince me otherwise and I gave him a piece of my mind. Motorcyclists need to learn to drive defensively (assuming we are invisible) and stop driving from bar to bar guzzling beer – THAT’S what saves lives. They like to make noise for attention, just like goth teenagers or any other fringe group tries to look extremely different from the mainstream – they are insecure and need lots of attention. The rest of us are fine and still alive with quiet pipes!
Loud bass music and the sound of a loud exhaust system are quite different. One makes me angry and the other makes me smile and be thankful I don’t live on a busy street. These commenters sound like old crybabies. Maybe it’s time to move to Florida or a gated community.
Automobiles must be inspected annually (in some counties, anyway). Are motorcycles subject to inspection? Why can’t these illegal modifications be caught during an annual inspection?
Thank you for saying what needs to be said. But why give H-D a pass on this? A responsible company would work to reduce pollution it causes, whether it’s odors, runoff, smog, noise or whatever. Sure, police take a pass on enforcement, but H-D actually encourages this illegal behavior. “Scofflaw” seems to be an integral part of the H-D brand and shame on them.
With all there is to worry about in this world, this is what you pick? Deal with it!
Bravo!
Vanessa Murray is a shining example of why this will never change. Some people don’t really care if their actions have negative effects on others, it’s all about them. So deal with it!
I can’t think of ANY vehicle with an internal combustion engine that can’t be heard from 50 feet away…
Here on the north side of Chicago, it seems like the crotch rockets are more common/worse than hogs.
Bring on the electric harley….
Well, at least I am “shining” – just like my Harley!
Yes, this Murph’s article needs to be spread throughout the Milwaukee-Chicago metroplex.
The rubbish that the motorcycle noise helps the bikes be seen to avoid and accident is just that– rubbish. However, citizens within a two or more blocks can hear this unnecessary noise. It’s a blatant lack of respect by the noisy bike’s owner, simple as that.
Public action and outcry needs to increase so much so that it will lead to action. Action to see existing Federal, State and local noise-related ordinances enforced (locally, decibel meters can be easily used by LEO’s and MOST communities possess these hand-held units). And, stronger noise ordinances need to be passed so this miserable noise can be minimized.
Harley should be pressured to make their exhaust systems so they cannot be easily compromised by the bike’s owner (the noise cancelling insert is easily removed) who loves to make others notice him. Most people look at these disrespectful individuals with disdain, not awe, envy or respect.
The thought of a female Harley riding literally “shining” brought to mind the vision of an overly tan, under dressed (but in leather) woman who is either extremely skinny and malnourished looking from years of illicit drug use or rotund overfed woman from years of hamburger face stuffing as she combs her extremely thinned hair away from an abused wrinkled face that hasn’t seen a protective facemask on a helmet (what helmet?) so much as it’s seen the dozens of cigarettes daily… the kind of woman that makes you question why people make the life choices they make and wonder if they realize how much pity you have for them and their apparently tough life. Oh, but with glitter sprinkled over their head. Sorry, forgot the shining part.
But then I realized, you should not stereotype an entire group of people. Vanessa might not actually be a drug abusing wrinkled babyboomer who looks 20 years older than her real age. So too, should I not judge all Harley riders based on the action of one subset of macho loud pipe tough guy’s.
So to Vanessa and all Harley riders that I have assumed the worst of… I am sorry.
I pray for the cycle (no pun intended) of man to come full revolution so we can rid the Earth of you whiny pansies that have nothing better to be bothered by than the fact that you can’t sip your Napa wine in peace. Most of you the same people that will selfishly hold up a line of morning traffic in the city with your little bike helmet with the dentist mirror attached. For god’s sake yes, ALL Harley’s should be banned so that each of YOU are not inconvenienced for 10 seconds a week when a bike passes by. While we are on the subject, we should ban airplane traffic as well. I don’t deserve to be bothered by an airplane flying overhead seemingly no matter where I go, just so some asshole can fly to Duluth. Everyone can drive their Prius’ where they need to go instead so I don’t have to listen to it.
My friends, you’re missing the entire point of the roar. It is “Notice me, notice me!” Much like a 4-year-old in the pool, hollering, “Watch me, Daddy, watch me!” How sad.
I find the loudness of Harley’s to be pretty annoying, and I’m not a motorcycle guy, but I’m kind of with Dude on this one. The noise takes up maybe 10 seconds of an average week. My in-laws live close to O’Hare, and the noise from airplanes passing overhead is way louder and more annoying than the noise from a Harley. I’m more annoyed by talking and driving, which occurs daily and frequently, than I am by Harley’s.
If you think the Harley noise only takes up 10 seconds of time, then you’ve never lived anywhere near a Harley dealership, or the lower east side during Harley-fest. Those are non-stop weekends of fun. That being said, I’d take the sound of a Harley weekend back over my neighbor’s untrained dog that they let bark in the yard all day long. Let’s ban dogs too while we’re dreaming up new regulations.
However, will some of the Harley defenders (Dude, Vanessa, anyone?) at least concede that when they’re stopped at a red light and revving the engines, it’s not for safety reasons. It’s because they’re jerks.
PMD, you’re only saying that because you always have to disagree with me. Go ahead… admit it.
Just kidding. To me the attitude of some Harley riders is even worse than the annoying sound itself. I think I had more tolerance before I experienced the thrill of Harley’s being revved up outside my window so the riders could hear the echo of the sound in the city canyon.
Ha. Guilty as charged Andy!
For real, though, I have no trouble believing that many Harley riders are obnoxious tools who enjoy revving their engines just to piss other people off. And I have never lived anywhere near a dealership, and I’m sure that is highly unpleasant. I would not want to live near a Harley dealership.
God Bless You !
We used to live in the city. Every year for the festival we would leave town. We finally left for good and I am not sorry.
Noise ordinances only apply to nonwhite urban youth, silly.
You clearly have no concept of basic math nor do you present anything factual in this article (12 times louder than a jackhammer), you should teach a class in bullshitting. No mention of the huge number of crotch rockets that I hear SCREAMING through the gears from a mile away, or the turbo diesel pickup trucks that sound like a NASCAR race car as they accelerate through town. Good thing you don;t live by Miller park or the packer stadium you Candy Ass.
Candy Ass? Haha, I just got images of early 90’s wrestling and the rock coming out to call everyone a candy ass! Good times… didn’t realize some people still talked like that.
But seriously, while I question Milwaukee Magazine’s measurements of only 78 decibels for jack hammering on the 794 project… if it was indeed 78 dB, then 110 dB is somewhere between 8 and 16 times louder. So I’m not sure which math skills Bruce Murphy needs to brush up on…
Regardless, this isn’t an article about trucks (usually 86 dB peak), airplanes (82 dB at 1 mile), or any other nuisance… this is about Harley riders, their overly loud bikes, the false reasoning of safety, and their inconsiderate attitude. At least if a crotch rocket is running through the gears they’re long gone within seconds… Harley’s… not so much. Especially if they’re just revving to hear themselves rev.
“Murphy’s law” created illegal hate speech against a protected group of people. Yes standard motorcycles-and those modified to result in significant volume rises, traveling prudently on our public way, by a person, for what ever reason, are legally protected by the NCA of 1972, EPA Codes, the Bill of Rights, the US Constitution, and annotations by Supreme Court decisions surrounding noise control law enforcement methods. A Harley-Davidson Motor Company regulated product does not emit 80 dB(A) for the prototype used to record maximum pass-by measurements. It is common to find all types of motorcycle manufacturers, (and automobile manufacturers) purposely building products to be far quieter then required under the applicable regulations. Does your Toyota Prius sound like a 5.0 liter Mustang when leaving a traffic light (both standard products are purposely designed within applicable federal law)? An owner who wishes to modify these type of products may do so legally under federal and state law, when the result is a significant volume rise, but the product continues to be able to meet the defined limits under the EPA pass-by procedure. It is interesting to note that the EPA does not certify motorcycle exhaust mufflers, silencers, or exhaust systems.
Excessive sound energy produced by these products is not the fundamental problem in this issue, it is only an offshoot symptom. The cure to the root cause of this problem must not be focused on it’s symptom, but on what causes the issue to exist. This 100 year old problem has proven that owners of products they OWN, enjoy making standard modifications. Therefore questionable jurisprudence methods allows noise control enforcement methods to not be effective. That is the core issue, but anti-noise control zealots fail to even mention this problem in demanding a cure. Instead they love to incite hatred towards protected groups of people for their own prejudicial reasons, which is in itself a crime. These anti-noise experts fail to equate how We The People have placed the legal evidence demands on the accuser, and not on the defendant in a noise control case. It is Like Minded People who have allowed our legal system to work for a noise control defendant. It is enough like minded people who are fully satisfied with who must provide the preponderance of the evidence in these contested court cases. We The People have made the most noise in this issue, not Harley-Davidson products.
“…when Harleys are sold, they emit 80 decibels…”
A telephone dial tone is about 80. City traffic while inside a car is about 85. A flute around 85 – 100.
It is not necessary to talk about specific decibel levels of noise emitted by motorcycles, nor is it necessary to try to measure those decibel levels for enforcement purposes. That really cannot be done in the field with any accuracy and it is just about impossible to get the state or the police to implement that useless motorcycle noise control method.
The motorcycle lobby will have you and your public officials going around in circles debating what is too loud and what is not. If you take that bait from the motorcycle lobby and limit yourself to going down that road, you will end up going nowhere while those illegally modified and obviously excessively loud motorcycles keep roaring away with impunity. For the motorcycle ‘rights’ lobby, that’s the idea.
You must go down a different road and target the root cause of that obviously excessive motorcycle noise. That is the illegal tampering with motorcycle exhaust systems. All highway and off-road motorcycles made since 1983 are required by federal law to meet the federal total noise limits of 83 dB up to 1986 model years, and 80 dB for 1986 and later model years.
Those total noise emissions are assessed with the motorcycle operating in a full throttle acceleration mode. And by that comprehensive testing methodology the designers of the motorcycle’s mufflers are compelled to do a good job of designing those mufflers to effectively suppress exhaust noise as a top design priority lest the motorcycle’s total noise emissions will exceed the federal limits.
The result of that compliance test is mufflers that really muffle that exhaust noise. And when motorcycles are operated under normal road condition’s (not full throttle acceleration), those EPA compliant motorcycles with their pre-certified EPA compliant mufflers are petty darn quiet. You know this to be true by your observations of quiet motorcycles that have not been tampered with, as rare as that observation may be for many of you living in Harley territory.
What is needed to even start to get handle on this chronic problem is to prohibit in law the modification of motorcycle exhaust systems (mufflers), and to bolster that, to explicitly require in law all motorcycles that fall under the federal regulations to be equipped with labeled EPA compliant mufflers in order to be registered for highway use and at all times while they are in use. Also, the police must be authorized to stop and ticket motorcycles for the observation of the obviously “excessivie and unusual” (no decibel meters) noise illegally modified motorcycles emit. If the state has an annual inspection for motorcycles, their exhaust systems must be inspected for the presence of no or improper mufflers and make sure those that fall under the federal regulations are equipped with unaltered EPA compliant mufflers.
If you want to mute those loud Harleys, that is what has to done and the endless debate about what is too loud and what is not has to stop. To put in a nutshell, you’ve got to make sure those Harleys have proper mufflers. Do that, and the noise emission problem will take care of itself thanks to proper and EPA compliant mufflers. That is, of course, if that motorcycle noise control policy is enforced. And as always, you must pressure your authorities to do that and knock off the excuses for not doing it.
The air pollution ought to be a “technicality” to nail these self-absorbed fools on, even if the decibels get ignored by police. Harley drones have little respect for anything beyond themselves. They are rolling bags of ego.
A row of parked Harley’s might behave like a row of dominoes if one were to push the first one over. Whoever tried it would have to leave quickly but it would be satisfying. One could upload a video of the experiment for others to enjoy. Just a concept.
Jim C, that would be immoral, against the law, and also assumes that all Harley riders are the “bad” ones. While I unabashedly want to see noise ordinances enforced and loud Harley riders get fined, I’d first like to see you (or whomever decides to try that little experiment) go to jail for your actions.
It is true that the very type of illegal tampering many Harley owners (and motorcycle dealerships and shops that cater to their illicit desires) perform on their state and federally regulated motorcycles can, and often do, adversely affect their air pollution emissions as well as their noise emissions. Indeed, that type of tampering also can and should be targeted in any effort to crack down on the chronic problem of excessively loud motorcycles.
However, although it is proper and quite legal for the motorcycle noise battered public to express its disdain for excessively loud motorcycles and their dissatisfaction and disgust for the lack of attention to the problem their authorities have displayed for years, it is not proper or appropriate to encourage or condone doing harm to the property of motorcycle riders or to the riders themselves, even if they ride illegally tampered with and excessively loud motorcycles, for that is quite illegal and will accomplish nothing in having their loud pipes legally muted.
It is the rule of law and the active enforcement of same that must be employed to deal with the problem. We have enough law breakers to deal with within the motorcycling community already; we don’t need to create more law breakers.
Excellent reporting and commentary, Bruce!
You are misreading and misrepresenting the 2007 study on motorcycle crashes. You state: “A 2007 study by the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration found that motorcyclists were overwhelmingly responsible for causing accidents with passenger vehicles. In nearly three-fourths of the two-vehicle motorcycle crashes involving passenger vehicles, the motorcycle was the striking vehicle. Motorcyclists were 2.5 times more likely to be impaired by alcohol than auto drivers, were 6.8 times more likely to be speeding, and three times more likely to have an invalid license.”
For starters, the report doesn’t say that motorcycles overwhelmingly cause the accident. It merely notes correlation of statistics to help identify root causes. Second, the statistics that you cherry picked are specifically those in which a motorcycle crashes with another motor vehicle AND in which there was a fatality of the motorcycle operator. However, you don’t say that and leave the reader to believe that all motorcycists are 2.5 times more likely to be drunk than drivers of cars.
Furthermore a motorcycle striking a car should not imply fault on the motorcycle (e.g. a car runs a red light and is struck by a motorcycle traveling in the right of way). And you infer all of these traits on Harley riders, and make no mention of sport bikes and other types of motorcyclists who are just as likely if not moreso (in the case of “crotch rockets”) to be speeding and violating traffic laws.
Finally, your assertion that motorcycles violate the night time noise ordinance which states that “no power tools or equipment… may be operated between 9 p.m. and 8 a.m.” is laughable. Arguing that Harley’s should have to obey noise laws aimed at lawn mowers is like saying that lawn mowers should have to have seat belts because they have four wheels just like a car.
I live in Ventura, California. I have twin children who are 2 years old, and they get scared and run to me or my wife in fear when Harleys accelerate from the corner where we live. I feel it is wrong that my children are put in a frightened state of mind because Harley riders like the way it feels when their machine is roaring to the world. Would any of you like it if you had young kids and I was blasting a jet engine outside their window? Just because it makes you feel like more of a man to play “dress up like a Hell’s Angel”. There MUST be some other way that you guys can make yourselves feel more like a man.
Those of you who live in California and that are victims of motorcyclists who illegally modify their vehicle’s mufflers, ride loud and don’t care if they distress you with their ear shattering noise must complain to the authorities about the problem. Complaining on forums like this one is not enough, as the authorities don’t likely read the complaints you post on them.
You must make sure your local and state authorities hear your complaints about those unlawfully loud Harley Hogs and other such illegally modified motorcycles.
It is especially vital to complain to the state legislature and demand that the root cause excessively loud motorcycles, illicitly modified exhaust systems (mufflers), is more precisely prohibited and bolstered with stiff penalties to encourage compliance.
And even more important, you must demand that those tampering prohibitions be activly enforced against and not take no for an answer to your demands.
You have a legitimate right not to be assaulted by unlawfully excessive motorcycle noise. Stand up for your rights and don’t let the Harley Hogs get away with loudly trampling over them any longer.
1000 dollar a day fine for motor cycles that are to loud
Cops LOVE loud motorcycles. That’s because noise attracts cops like poop attracts flies. A cop hears a bike blasting down the street a mile away, he knows “Wups, that idiot is speeding!” He follows the noise and tickets him for speeding, U-turn, rolling stop, whatever. NEVER for noise. The noise tells him everything he needs to know. He can write HUNDREDS more tickets per month because he knows everything the idiots are doing.
One time I was going 80 in a 35 zone when I passed a cop parked on a side street looking down at something in his car. He never looked up. If I’d had a blooey pipe on that bike, he would have had his car in gear waiting for me before I could have seen him. I knew a guy with a Honda 500-four who rode it for two years with the standard (quiet) exhaust and no tickets. Then he put a blaring tuba Kerker exhaust on it, and got three tickets the first week, and two more the next. IDIOT! Serves him right. He never did put the quiet exhaust back on it, just rode really, really slowly.
Riding a loud bike is like someone hitting me on the head with little hammers thousands of times a minute. I want to continue thinking clearly and enjoy riding. I also don’t want to annoy other people. And get attention from cops.
It’s nice to hear that at least some police officers pay attention to vehicles emitting obviously excessivie exhaust noise and actually take the the time to do their job and ticket those offenders. But not all cops love to stop and ticket the operators of vehicles with loud pipes.
Many citizens have found that when they complain to their police about loud motor vehicles, the police respond with various excuse for not enforcing those laws. Excuses such as: “we never hear them”,”they’re too hard to catch”, “that is not a high priority”, “we don’t have the resources to enforce that”, “the law is vague”.”the law is unenforceable”, “it’s too hard to prove how loud they are”, “motorcycles are manufactured to be loud, so we can’t ticket for that”, “it’s a waste of our time because the tickets are always dismissed”. Most of all those excuses are not valid, but if the law is lacking clarity that can be remedied.
For many citizens, their police and public officials pay no attention to loud motor vehicles and do noting about that problem no matter how much the public complains. They just respond with the same old lame excuses for doing nothing. There is a remedy for that too. Contact Noise Free America ( noisefree@hotmail.com) to find out what those remedies are.
I hate most Harleys. I lived a,ing a busy street in LA. Three stories up and the structure across the street was a tall building. In fact th whole street a canyon. And the echos of the Harley’s would reverberate along the walls.
Now in Orange County those low brain types take those bikes past my place. And the noise is annoying. I don’t often hate, but it is reserved for my hatred of war, Harleys, taxes, and welfare.
Research shows that bikes with modified exhaust systems crash more frequently than those with stock pipes.
It is quite apparent that most of the responses here are from generally ignorant people. Harley is an American icon. Honda and BMW are not – If all there was to ride were BMW’s and Honda’s I would never ride a motorcycle – would not be fun at all.
And I would move out of any city that has noise ordinances that say no power tools after 8 or 9 PM and before 8 am – what a crock of bull. That sounds like a pretty Vanilla place. Maybe Harley should relocate their HQ to a town/city that wants them and not a bunch of sniveling little weenies that have nothing better to do than complain.
Sigh……
Bye Mike. You have been abusing your rattle toy and are now going to have it taken away.
I ride an electric motorcycle that’s very quiet. I split lanes in LA without any problem since I only go through when there’s enough room, and I ride as though I were invisible. These big bad bikers with loud pipes claim they modify the bikes for safety reasons. If they are scared to ride in traffic without making noise, then I suggest they ride a bus instead. If you’re not really scared, then you’re lying about the safety thing and just like to make noise. That’s what bullies do. And reading some of the comments, it’s clear these people are nothing more than bullies.
Loud Biker Thugs will tell you that “Loud Pipes Save Lives.” This is a myth and a lie, an excuse for bad behavior. Loud pipes do nothing but increase rider fatigue; increase rider reaction time to audible stimuli; unnecessarily assault the citizenry with illegal decibel levels that are especially dangerous to our children and our elderly; startle the unsuspecting caged public resulting in a fight-or-flight response; violate the right of every citizen to exist within an environment free from excessive and dangerous noise levels. The Hurt Report clearly debunks the Loud Pipes Save Lives myth…the truth is, Loud Pipes Violate Rights.
Let’s follow the Loud Pipes Save Lives argument to its logical conclusion. If “noise” is truly the answer to traffic safety then let’s install sirens on bicycles and mopeds. Let’s require that every motor vehicle under a specified gross weight operate continually with its horn activated. And again, If noise is the answer to accident avoidance, why aren’t Goldwing, BMW LT – RT – GS riders falling like flies? Operators of these motorcycles are some of the safest, most professional riders on the roadways. Noise as a safety factor is pure NONSENSE and only serves to feed the hedonistic, selfish, personality of the loud thug biker community!
Want to be safer, a more professional, respectable biker? Wear bright colored clothing, proper safety gear like a DOT approved full-face helmet, gloves, heavy jeans, padded jacket, full MC boots and practice defensive riding techniques.
Respect the public, don’t be a loud motorcycle THUG!
Police are complicit with the Harley riders for the noise to have gotten out of control in the US. Cops are either intimidated/scared of bikers, or they identify with the loud biker gang outlaw image themselves. Motorcycles with modified exhausts should be cited, and the riders be fined enough to discourage them from doing it again.
Our tourist town of Eureka Springs, AR battles this issue every day…we are told to smile and wave because they spend money (making us prostitutes) but only in bars, hotels and restaurants. What no one wants to acknowledge is how many quiet tourists are run off that were spending money everywhere in town. Our town commerce is now swaying more toward biker traffic-new biker oriented business open each week as high-end shops and galleries give up and move on. Our noise ordinance was recently rewritten but shows not much sign of enforcement…we don’t want to piss anybody off! As for myself, I don’t care if you are racking pipes or screaming drunk in the park, obnoxious behavior should not be tolerated. If you are visiting a tourist town, act respectfully, people really do live there!
Why can’t you just let me sleep at night? Lack of sleep is damaging to health and that’s an undisputed fact. I most definitely lose sleep over this ridiculous noise and my life suffers for it. How do you have the right to damage my health? Break the law all you want, and if you feel the law is wrong, get it changed. Just please lay off the throttle and have some RESPECT when you’re going through a residential neighborhood and there won’t be so much hate. And when you’re stopped at a light, why do you rev the engine? What could that possibly have to do with safety? If it can’t idle on its own, maybe invest in repairs rather than illegal exhaust.
What really pushes your buttons? What would I have to do to you and your family that would lower your quality of life and cost you enough sleep to take action? I’m sure there’s something, and if I did that something to you, and dismissed it the way loud riders do, you’d be outraged. In many places, including where I live, it’s not ten seconds per day, it’s every ten seconds. Maybe I’m exaggerating, but can’t anyone just admit that they simply don’t care about anyone else, their kids, etc, they just want to be loud and obnoxious?
I have ridden various bikes for over 30 years. I currently ride a Harley. Yes, my pipes are loud. I can’t even count the number of times a cager was ready to pull out in front of me from a driveway, intersection, adjacent lane, etc, and a little blip of the throttle let them know I was there. That’s one reason I always modify the exhaust on any bike I own. Another reason is that I love the sound, and can hear my motor, and where I am at in the power bands. Yet another reason most bikers modify their exhaust systems is performance. The bikes come very lean from the factory, and aftermarket pipes, air cleaners, and a tune let the bikes run the way they should. As a Harley rider, I’m not a beer guzzling moron with a low IQ as some comments here tend to classify us as. We are folks just like you, hard working, family oriented, intelligent beings. I don’t try to be obnoxious, and don’t rev my engine at red lights. I also don’t live in a bubble. I dislike leaf blowers, people who talk right next to you on cell phones, women who wear too much perfume, idiots texting while driving, the list goes on. There have been modified cars and bikes for centuries, and there always will be. If you can’t handle the world around you, go buy an island so you can be all by yourself, and I don’t have to listen to you whine about everything like a freaking two year old.
Nineball,
You are a grown adult in age but not in knowledge, wisdom or maturity as evidenced by “…a little blip of your throttle to let them know I was there…” Did you know your motorcycle has a horn and that it’s intended purpose is for making others aware you are there. You need to ride defensively and stop passing off your noise as a safety tool.
Of course you are a hard-working family man. Who is going to stand up and say they are not. This is absolutely irrelevant to you violating the rights of others to Quiet and the use and enjoyment of their homes, businesses and overall health.
There have been selfish, egotistical people for centuries who could care less about those around them and that is why we will continue to pass laws and demand that this noise be put to an end.
Enjoy your rattle toy while you still can.
Nineball – I’m not whining about some trivial annoyance like a woman’s strong perfume. I agree with your entire list of annoyances, but not one of them affects me when I’m in my home except the blower. HOWEVER, I don’t complain about my neighbors keeping their yards and gutters clean and well kept with a blower because it serves a purpose. I have yet to be awoken by a blower late at night, and I’ve never experienced my windows rattling all weekend long because the neighbor modified his blower’s exhaust system. There must be someone that likes the sound and performance of a modified blower, and can gage the power band of the blower to judge how much throttle to use to get leaves off the sidewalk, versus out of the delicate flower beds. I have yet to witness that. And no, you are not just like me, and maybe you don’t “try” to be obnoxious, but you don’t have to try. Putting illegal pipes on your bike accomplished that for you. I love cranking up the music in my car because I like the way it sounds, but I have enough respect and consideration for others that I turn it down when I drive through residential areas. No one wants to hear my music, even though I like it, and I respect that. Finally, I CAN handle the world around me, even though a small minority of people like to cause misery to countless people everywhere they go, because they “like it”. I CAN handle getting through the days with lack of sleep. If I could afford to buy an island, I would, and I’d sleep there every night during the summer. I don’t whine about things that a two year old would. I complain about things that a reasonable adult complains about when said adult is assaulted by the illegal activities of otherwise reasonable adults that are missing some piece of judgement that makes them feel justified in being bullies to the general public.
Give me a Harley rumble any time day or night. Music to my ears. Love it.
This article is just a long rambling of anti-motorcycle hate. It’s obvious the author doesn’t ride or know much about bikes. The #1 reason you modify your exhaust is performance. That’s true of any bike sport or cruiser. Punching out your exhaust to make it louder makes the bike run worse from loss of back pressure and messing up the air/fuel mix. You also lose power and run the real risk of harming your engine. No one buys a $30,000 motorcycle then sets out to destroy it.
No mention in this article about the new Harleys either. They are very quiet and fall far under the standards set for noise level.
I have been riding H-D since 1979. I always had loud pipes. I am 59 years old. I have never had the lane change (blind spot) with a cage trying to get into the same lane I was in, the entire time wit loud pipes. And I have had 7 different Harleys during this period. Now when I bought my 2009 Street Glide, I decided I, wanted to tone down the loud pipe thing (just say I am getting older) and wanting a quieter bike. So I go with a 103 stage 2 upgrade, with the Reinhardt slip on exhaust system. They are mellow, deep rich sounding pipes, don’t get me wrong, if you really start accelerating abruptly, they get a little more aggressive sounding. But still not what you would define as loud. Now since I have had that machine for 7 years, I have had that occasional lane change occurrence happen. Now mind you I don’t think anything in the world is going to save us from cages pulling out in front of us either, cages (automobiles’) at intersection’s where we have the right of way, or cages just pulling out from side roads. (a) Some just do not do not care, he can stop (b) Oh’ I just did not see him, (c) or where they just do not stop at all, when they clearly have a STOP SIGN, they clearly ignore. So to make a point I truly believe from the loud pipe debate, especially from the lane perspective, if a bike is heard, these occurrence’s would be effective. That is why my new 2015 Dyna Street Bob is going to have Vance & Hines Big Radius pipes installed along with a Stage 1 upgrade. So bottom line here is I do believe “Loud Pipes Save Lives” in certain situations.
hogwylde: You need to learn how to ride defensively, use your horn, wear bright colors. Yours is the traditional pathetic excuse to make noise and assaulting people with your noise is wrong. If riding your motorcycle is so dangerous then don’t do it. For people who ride Honda. BMW, etc. they don’t feel the need to make noise. You don’t seem them dying everywhere….
Shawn West: This is not motorcycle hate. This is noise hate. You may love the noise but the rest of society doesn’t. We don’t want it on our properties, in our homes, destroying our quality of life. Just like you don’t want to hear boom cars while you try to sleep or enjoy your home or eat a meal sucking in cigarette smoke. Your sh*t stinks too.
All motorcycles must meet EPA sound mandates. The problem is MOST Harley riders feel the need to make them louder and THAT is the problem.
@Ghost : From the perspective of a rider, yes, most of this is anti-motorcycle hate. Have you actually listened to a motorcycle horn? You can speak louder. Well on both of mine you can, 1979 / 1986. The horn is a joke. With one hand working the clutch, the other on the brake, one foot working the shifter and the other on the back brake, with what exactly in an emergency situation are you working the horn with? And by that time it is too late anyway. You cannot brake and turn at the same time like a car can.
Bright colors. This is a tired over used myth. Take my crash last year in june 2014. At night time when a car pulls out in front of you the vehicle headlights are at a 90 degree angle. Not facing your bike. All the bright colors and reflective gear in the world does NOTHING. I could of been wearing a neon green tutu and I still would of ended up with a broken ankle and an even more broken bike. I do have added reflective tape, the same you see on fire trucks, on the back of my bike to help prevent a rear-ender. But that is really the only situation it and bright colors might help.
Loud pipes ARE riding defensively. All it has to do is save your life one single time and it is worth it. Maybe you ride, maybe you don’t. But as someone who does everyday I’ll take whatever I can get to save my butt from Mr. / Ms. Cell Phone driver. Loud pipes, extra lights, pyrotechnics and a disco ball hanging off my handle bar if I could. Whatever it takes to make it home alive.
If you can hear my bike on your property and in your home then that car over there can too. If that stops them from forcing me off the road with a no signal merge at 70 mph then it is worth it. Sorry for the 10 second distraction to your day but those pipes just saved my life.
Here in Washington State adding extra lights is against the law. You will get ticketed for being a distraction. Which is the whole point to begin with. Extra back lights, helmet cams, under glow lighting, lane splitting and straight pipes are all illegal here. When it comes right down to it the loudest performance EPA standard pipes compatible with your ride are really the only safety feature you can add.
For the riding community, articles like this are anti-motorcycle hate. What it is saying from our perspective is, “Hey, here’s an excuse to make it easier for us drivers to kill you.”
Shawn: This is poor attempt to justify your noise pollution as a “safety device.” When you are riding down the road with your noise you are actively harming people and stealing their rights to the use and enjoyment of their homes and businesses. You are causing physical harm. Just look up the links between noise pollution (your loud exhaust) and health. This is a physical assault. Whether that assault is for 10 seconds or 10 hours. It is still an assault.
Instead of buying a better horn or petitioning manufacturers to install better OEM horns you chose to spend much more money on an exhaust – why – because you like the noise and the feeling of power. You just can’t admit that the noise is the real driver here and not safety. You cry safety and that appeases your conscience.
I see many motorcycle enthusiasts that have quiet exhausts. They ride defensively and respectful of others. I have a friend who has been riding for over 20 years with stock quiet exhausts and HATES your noise. Your arguments from his perspective are rubbish.
You do not have the right to protect yourself by harming innocent people. If you still choose to keep assaulting people with your noise after knowing the damage you are causing then this makes you a criminal even if the laws have not caught up with the times. If you need a law to stop you because you are not man enough to do this on your own then shame on you.
WI is one state I will never think of moving to because of its noise pollution problem. it is a shame no entitiy can do anything to stop Harely from producing these obnoxious bikes.
Harely riders have successfully convinced themselves into believing that their bikes are loud for safety reasons. Like we non-motorcycle riders are complete idiots on the roads. The reality is more motorcycles break the law and endangering themselves and others with their lane slitting and speeding maneuvers.
Could pedestrians use this same principle, blasting some sort of air horn whenever crossing the street to make it more likely drivers will notice them and yield the right of way?
Eric S:
Exactly! Imagine a world where cars had air horns so tractor trailers could “hear” them – since you know, they are smaller, and people with crashing cymbals and flashing lights on their heads. Sounds like a Dr. Seuss world. Absurd and senseless. It’s all just an excuse to appease one’s conscience and justify assaulting people.
Thank you for this Mr. Murphy. But I think you are actually kind of lenient about some of the extreme Harley noise levels. 1000 feet? Ha! I live near a long major road, and sometimes I can still hear a loud Harley 3 MILES down the road after it has passed my house. They are not only louder than any other vehicle on the road by orders of magnitude, but louder than anything else, period! When will someone in power finally do something about these criminals??
Ugly American is right. The ugliness doesn’t come from their appearance, but simply from their “I don’t give a f*ck about anyone else” attitude. I’m truly baffled that this is tolerated by law enforcement.
I find these anti noise comments hilarious. My friend rides a bike, my uncle rides one as well, so that must mean I know everything about motorcycles. Listen, to those non believers in loud pipes, go out and purchase a quiet motorcycle, and see how quickly your mind will change. You’ll notice things more, as your life hangs in the balance, such as drivers using no turn signals, people cutting you off, drivers brake checking you for no reason, and my personal favorite the I don’t even have my eyes on the road and I’m staring at my phone texting while running into your lane driver. As I said you don’t know until you’ve owned motorcycles for years. I’ve been riding since I was 4 years old and I’m 31 now. Now before someone pipes back with a rattle toy comment, mind that I’m also a us army veteran, a prior military contractor, and a armed security officer, and have done more for this country and the safety of it than most of you libtards dream about taking away. I have however never owned a Harley, but my current bike is a Suzuki DR650 dual sport bike, for those who are not familiar with motorcycles its basically a street legal dirt bike which I can also ride off road if need be. Is it loud, well yes it is. Why is it loud, well for one it sounded like a sewing machine when I got it, and I was tired of nearly getting killed on trips across town. But there’s nothing annoying about the sound of a single piston “thumper” motorcycle, its truly a motorcycles purest form and produces a loud thump exhaust note. Since the installation of a FMF pipe and two brothers muffler I have had much less trouble with people not seeing me and nearly ending my life. Also to the horn idea people, you’ve obviously never rode a motorcycle, the horn is quiet and on the opposite side from the throttle and does not get a texting drivers attention when he’s weaving into your lane such as a quick blip of the throttle would. Bright colored clothing…. What a joke that is, how is a driver going to notice my bright jacket and helmet when his face is buried in his iPhone? This page is absolutely biased and is not based on any fact, I do however challenge the naysayers to purchase a motorcycle and quietly ride it around town however and then report back their findings, and see then if their outlook has changed. I want to end this on an apology to those whom listened to my loud pipe and it ruined a good minute of their day and have them also think about the countless nights where I got no sleep, listening to the cracking of gunfire and the thuds of artillery and mortars…….I’m so deeply sorry to ruin your minute.
Anson: For all you have done for our country insist on stealing the rights of others and assaulting them with your noise. That negates all you served for. Serving does not grant you special privileges to assault people. You do not have the right to try to protect yourself by assaulting others whether they are “libtards” as you so called it or conservatives or atheists or Christians or or or. You should know better and do your fellow citizens a disservice.
The Loud Biker Cult[ure] will tell you that “Loud Pipes Save Lives.” This is a myth, a lie, and nothing but an excuse for bad behavior.
Loud pipes do nothing but increase rider fatigue; increase rider reaction time to audible stimuli; unnecessarily assault the citizenry with illegal decibel levels that are especially dangerous to our children and our elderly; startle the unsuspecting caged public resulting in a fight-or-flight response; violate the right of every citizen to exist within an environment free from excessive and dangerous noise levels. The Hurt Report clearly debunks the Loud Pipes Save Lives myth…the truth is, Loud Pipes Violate Rights.
Let’s follow the Loud Bikes Save Lives argument to its logical conclusion. If “noise” is truly the answer to traffic safety then let’s install sirens on bicycles and mopeds. Let’s require that every motor vehicle under a specified gross weight operate continually with its horn activated. And again, If noise is the answer to accident avoidance, why aren’t Goldwing, BMW LT – RT – GS riders falling like flies? Operators of these motorcycles are some of the safest, most professional riders on the roadways. Noise as a safety factor is pure NONSENSE and only serves to feed the hedonistic, selfish, personality of the loud thug biker community!
Want to be safer, a more professional, respectable biker? Wear bright colored clothing, proper safety gear like a DOT approved full-face helmet, gloves, heavy jeans, padded jacket, full MC boots and practice defensive riding techniques.
Respect the public, don’t be a loud motorcycle THUG!
Don’t be these guys:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vn05lGA6Gng
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fOh_bn_3rU8
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XCnt8Gf71RY
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CtMTW2fPKaY
Rickey Holtsclaw, Houston PD/Retired
See: Loud Motorcycles Suck – Facebook Community Page for the “truth” about the Loud Motorcycle Cult[ure] in America!
Responding to Anson Meyer who suggests we ride a quiet bike to see how dangerous it is. I ride an electric 2013 Zero S. There is no quieter motorcycle in the world. I can hit 60 mph in three seconds flat. I’ve never been beat off the line by anything yet. I split lanes all over the Los Angeles region in heavy traffic and never have any problems with people not hearing me. I ride defensively and do not go through unless I have room.
To suggest that you need a loud noise on all the time is silly. I have a horn, and when I’m in a position where someone might give me a problem, my thumb is on the button and I do not hesitate to use it. However, the times I’ve actually used the horn is very few. Yes, “cagers”, people in cars, are notorious for being distracted drivers, but that doesn’t mean I have the right to make incredibly loud noises all the time just so I can ride.
If you are too scared to ride in traffic without making noise, then maybe motorcycles are not for you. Maybe you should ride the bus instead.
What a bunch of whiney a$$ bi+€#es.
This article must draw good traffic from Google searches because every few months we see another one of these intelligent comments with creative internet cursing. They do realize they can’t intimidate little old ladies through the internet, right?
I just learned I’m a “cager.” Never knew that. This whole time I thought car = freedom, and really I’ve been trapped in a moving cage.
Hey Big Daddy, Wanta see some real whining big guy? Visit my Loud Motorcycles Suck Facebook Community Page. You won’t need breakfast, you’ll get your fill at my one-stop-shop for exposing the Loud Motorcycle Cult[ure] and their thuggish behavior. Now, BIG Daddy, take that phallic extension you call a “bike” and proceed to assault some children and elderly with your illegal noise…Have a nice day!
Rick Holtsclaw, Houston PD/Retired
Loud Motorcycles Suck – Facebook Community Page – Exposing the Loud Motorcycle Cult[ure] and their selfish, arrogant, hedonistic, behavior.
Great article. Everywhere they go they affect people in a negative way. The mentality of the loud harley riders is awful. They are just over compensating for ‘short’ falls. That’s a proven fact. I laugh at them especially when it rains. I commend the real men who don’t have to modify their pipes ‘for safety’. I just assume the loud pipes are like training wheels and as they become better drivers they don’t need that safety net and they take them off. Maybe we should be more compassionate towards these noise polluters. I hate to see anyone hurt but I also believe in natural selection. Riders slowly get killed or maimed because they CHOSE to ride a bike. I get offended when I see a sticker that says watch for bikes. Hell no! I won’t watch for bikes no more than I will for a car or a pedestrian. Pay attention to how the loudest ones ride closer to the center line. They THINK they own the road. It’s actually stupid because they won’t win in a head-on crash. If I hear them I edge closer to the center(staying in my lane). Make them sweat!!! I ALWAYS clean my windshield if I get a loud one behind me. And always honk my horn so they can hear me when I pass them! Make it as uncomfortable for them as possible…….if they don’t care like Big Daddy then why should we.
Maybe we should all honk our horns constantly as we drive so it’s safer for everyone. Honk as we leave our neighborhood early in the morning. Honk as we drive through a national park as people are trying to find peace and serentity. Let’s make everyone “safer”.
I remember being woken up in a campground at 6 am by a group of them. They don’t care. I hope they all go deaf. When I hear of a bike accident I always hope its a loud bike. One less one on the road.
Imagine if we all sounded like a loud Harley. Imagine how loud the world would be. They think they are special. Idiots!
Let’s start the “Be a Real Man” campaign. With their mentality, hopefully it will make them rev their engines even more so they dig their graves deeper!!!
They are already working on a way to outlaw them in national parks because they disturb wildlife. So bikers, rev those engines loud !!! We want to hear you and your stupidity ! ha!
Relax, Geezers.
I’m not a motorcyclist, but in just a little bit of time, you’ll be deaf and on Depends anyway…
Honestly, try a little less hatred and moronic flag waving and a little more intelligent dialog instead?
If you look at your own words, it is you who have become the thugs.
You are no better than the very people you criticize.
Actually, you are clearly more hateful.
Think a about it.
Mr. Mark, thanks for being open to an intelligent dialog. Let’s start out with respect. Do you think it’s disrespectful to make obnoxious noise with an illegally equipped motorcycle? Why or why not?
Do you think it’s necessary to go roaring through quiet residential neighborhoods, intentionally revving the engine multiple times, disturbing multiple families, knowing nothing about what’s going on inside their homes and how the noise might be impacting them?
Do you think it’s too much to expect a good night’s sleep without being awoken by illegal motorcycles roaring past at 3am? Do you think sleep is important to good health?
Why do you think it’s hateful and moronic flag waving to want those noisy machines quieted down?
Do you realize that while bikers claim that they’re just causing a 5 second inconvenience in someone’s day, that there are multiple bikers in many areas where the noise is almost constant?
I don’t claim to be better than anyone on an illegal motorcycle, but I AM more courteous and empathetic towards other people.
If you could respond to each point, it would help me understand how bikers think, and how they justify their illegal activities.
Mr. Mark, You suggest more tolerance and a more PC dialog when conversing about the Loud Motorcycle Cult[ure]. I recently published a short article on the subject of using the noun “thug” to describe the Loud Biker and his noise assault on America…please, allow me to share:
Battle Over Loud Motorcycles – Tact or Truth?
A number of my allies in the struggle against unnecessary, intrusive, noise in our environment have wisely suggested toning down the verbiage used to describe those “noisy” individuals that routinely violate the rights of others via loud, obnoxious, behavior.
Politically Correct descriptors, when discussing topics of controversy, certainly have a place in strategical debate. When discussing the Loud Motorcycle Cult[ure], this tactic would be most relevant if I was dealing with rational, discerning, wise, individuals, or if I truly thought that it was possible to persuade this rebellious group of LOUD mongrels to “change their ways.”
BUT, the group I am targeting, the group I am dealing with, are not rational, they are not polite except when “politeness” is advantageous to them personally; the members of the Loud Motorcycle Cult[ure] are not wise, nor do they “care” in the least about you or me and our desire to coexist in an environment free from illegal, unnecessary, intrusive, noise. The Loud Biker Cult[ure] is consumed with hedonism, moral relativism, the group dynamic, an obsessive – compulsive need to “fit-in,” to be accepted, to be respected. I’ve had far too many conversations with them on the side of roadways and in parking lots during traffic investigations. Up close and personal conversations with the loud bikers while en route to jail.
My dealings with the overwhelming majority participating in the Loud Biker Cult[ure] has led me to the conclusion that initially, they “appear” to be good-old-boys, great guys when circumstances suit them, is convenient or advantageous. Their participation in philanthropic endeavors have the appearance of dedication, care, concern, but the truth is, these acts of kindness are under girded by selfishness and their compulsion to be admired, respected and a contributing – functional part of the group dynamic – NOTHING ELSE; therefore, I am not deceived by their charitable, patriotic deeds – for many, it’s all a facade!
Never, in my 31.5 years as a Houston Police Officer, have I had the displeasure of interacting with such lying, arrogant, selfish, vulgar, obfuscating, deceiving, unfaithful, men and women, as the LOUD Biker Cult[ure]. Now, many will say that I simply have a visceral disdain for loud bikers and my perception of them is skewed because of that visceral disdain. I disagree for the following reasons:
1) I’ve always despised a bully – the LOUD biker is the PERFECT example of a thug-bully.
2) My knowledge and opinion of the loud thug biker stems from experiential knowledge i.e. I’ve been there, I know them!
I also know that there is absolutely nothing I can say or magic wand I can wave that will change the hearts and minds of the majority of LOUD bikers out there. They are cultic in nature and they literally worship the illegal noise that flows from their phallic extension they refer to as their “bike.” Exhaust “noise” is the cohesive glue that unites them, an icon under girding their rebel fantasies and their “noise” makes them feel part of something much bigger than themselves. The Loud Biker Cult[ure] is a community of undisciplined like-minded want-a-be commandos, many whom are struggling with a sense of self-worthlessness and anger at a society that does not understand their juvenile rebel ways.
Many of the loud biker thugs I interacted with during enforcement do truly suffer from a “middle-age-crisis” and find solace and acceptance in the group dynamic of like minded middle-aged-men. They congregate in biker bars and rub the wounds of life while commiserating with one another over a beer during discussions relevant to their failures in life, their marriage(s), their children…the President…the cops…the law…society…traffic…the weather…on-and-on.
Therefore, I do not have any fantasies about changing the hearts and minds of the “thugs” in the Loud Biker Cult[ure]. My contributions to the “Loud Motorcycles Suck” FB page simply provides the “truth” about the Loud Biker Plague and makes this experiential truth available to the general public suffering from these noise thugs. I know that the only viable option to successfully battling the loud motorcycle noise debacle is the Civil Process – I’ve been preaching that for years.
So then, am I concerned about the “feelings” of the loud thug bikers? Nope! Do I think I can perhaps persuade some to ride respectfully? Nope! I’m simply going to tell it like it is, give it to them straight, call a spade a spade and let the cards fall where they may. I will never negotiate with the thug-bullies in the Loud Biker Cult[ure]!
Examples of the Loud Motorcycle Cult[ure]
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vn05lGA6Gng
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xGyKBFCd_u4
Rickey Holtsclaw, Houston PD/Retired
Loud Motorcycles Suck – Facebook Community Page
So many ignorant comments. I’d be willing to be that 99% of the turds posting their drivel here have never even sat on a bike. You liberal turds should go back to licking boots. I hope you all go deaf you whining dolts. Bruce, you are the typical, white, aging cali libertard and you’re everything that is wrong with this country.
” you’re everything that is wrong with this country.”
Says a grown man (I assume) who trolls the Internet and calls other people ” liberal turds” and “libertard.”
The name calling and insults say a lot about your character, Ronald. Nothing constructive or intelligent to say. Thanks for reinforcing my views on this issue.
I’ll be Ronald is one of those “responsible” gun owners too…
Hello Ronald, I’ve owned, operated, maintained, 31 motorcycles since age 12. Have ridden professionally for years, accumulated hundreds-of-thousands-of-miles on motorcycles. You will NOT find a more politically, religiously, CONSERVATIVE individual on this forum than me.
You see Ronald, it’s my “conservatism” that makes the LOUD biker cult[ure] such an affront to me. I believe that men and women, husbands and wives, have the right to domestic tranquility, to coexist within an environment free from illegal, intrusive, unnecessary, dangerous, noise…LOUD biker noise that is especially dangerous to our children and our elderly. Ronald, there is absolutely NO excuse, rhyme or reason, for the behavior of the Loud Biker Cult[ure] other than pure hedonism, arrogance, disrespect, selfishness.
Rick Holtsclaw
Loud Motorcycles Suck – Facebook Community Page – Exposing Loud Biker thuggery!!!
Thank you for your work Rick Holtsclaw.
I ride and own bikes as a hobby. I’ve also taken part in competitions where we eventually lost our venues due to noise and environmental concerns. It’s a total farce that noise is strictly controlled for competition, yet on the public highways it’s like the wild west.
I would happily live near a racing venue that hosts noisy events a couple of times a month, than be disturbed 24/7 by excessively modified Harleys and sports bikes ridden by insecure, socially retarded Males.
Thanks Steve for you understanding and your insightful comment. I’ve recently written a letter to the Gov. and AG of Arkansas…let me share that with you. The Loud Biker Cult[ure] is enraged…
***26 August 2015 ***
Letter to the Attorney General of Arkansas, Leslie Rutledge and Governor Asa Hutchinson regarding Illegally Loud Vehicles, Illegal Motorcycle Rallies, Sovereign Immunity and Equal Protection Under the Law:
Hello,
I am in the midst of a battle of sorts relevant to the operation of illegally equipped, illegally loud motor vehicles, especially illegally loud motorcycles, on the roadways of Arkansas; motor vehicles that are in direct violation of Arkansas’ Motor Vehicle Laws, specifically, Subchapter 6 – Mufflers, 27-37-601, pg. 313.
Mayor Sanders of Fort Smith and Mayor Jordan of Fayetteville invite thousands of illegally loud motorcycles into their jurisdictions on an annual basis to attend motorcycle rallies e.g. The Steel Horse Rally and the Bikes, Blues, BBQ Rally. The other 363 days of the year, Illegally LOUD motor vehicles operate in stark violation of the Arkansas Motor Vehicle Code and apparently very little to nothing is done to correct the unacceptable situation.
Where illegally modified or illegally equipped motorcycles are concerned, I have personally tested some of these exhaust systems using the SAE J2825 Stationary Motorcycle Test and found them to emit two-four-six times or more the legal, compliant, 80 db(a) exhaust emissions (logarithmic scale) stipulated as the “minimum” safe level of protection for the general public by the Environmental Protection Agency (EPA). In addition to the studies and tests performed by the EPA, the World Health Organization has also confirmed the dangers of this type of noise, its negative impact on human physiology and the special danger it poses for our children and the elderly exposed to same.
I have attempted to seek civil redress for the wrongs committed by Mayor Sanders and Mayor Jordan for their collusion in nonfeasance as they, with intent and knowledge, disregard the State Law of Arkansas governing safe exhaust emissions by hosting biker rallies where thousands of illegally loud/illegally equipped motorcycles flood these Municipalities completely unencumbered by law enforcement. I’ve personally spoken with Mayor Sanders regarding this unacceptable situation and suggested that sufficient notice be given prior to the 2016 Steel Horse Rally and advise all motorcyclists operating illegally loud motorcycles that violations of the Traffic Code pertaining to exhaust noise will not be tolerated. Apparently, Mayor Sanders and Mayor Jordan care more for the monies generated via the biker rallies than the health and safety of the citizens of Fort Smith and Fayetteville. This is unacceptable and cannot continue.
My question is this. Why am I prevented from seeking civil redress as a result of the unconstitutional doctrine of Sovereign Immunity? Why am I, as a citizen of the United Stated, denied equal protection under the law, the right to enjoy domestic tranquility and pursue happiness? Why are the law enforcement entities in Arkansas permitted to simply ignore the “in your face” violations of vehicular noise laws, noise laws enacted for the safety of the general public? Why does the outdated doctrine of Sovereign Immunity shelter Mayor Sanders and Mayor Jordan from their irresponsible behavior and their failure to protect the citizens within their jurisdictions and those of us outside those jurisdictions that are assaulted by the audible assault of the illegally equipped motorcycles en route to and from these biker rallies?
Thank you for your time,
Rickey Holtsclaw
Loud Motorcycles Suck – Facebook Community Page – Exposing Loud Biker Thuggery!!!
The definition of a scofflaw is someone who purposely flaunts existing laws, especially laws not easily enforced. This makes sense to me; after all, it’s not like the police can hear these motorcycles coming a mile away – err, ahh, never mind.
These yahoos go up and down my street all day and well into the night, back and forth, back and forth, like little kids testing their parents’ tolerance with some obviously annoying toy or behavior. I imagine this gives them a certain special “thrill” – the idea that they’re able to flaunt the law, and taunt everyone who’s not part of their culture.
Dynamic, I think you hit it right on the head.
If anyone is interested, I’ve published some Youtube Videos on the Loud Motorcycle Cult[ure]. I apologize if my rhetoric is boring, but the message is experiential, truthful and telling.
Rick Holtsclaw, Houston PD/Retired
Loud Motorcycles Suck – Facebook & Youtube
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jx8PM8KUvZM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dCvd-j6yMMM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7EhAhkV3T0A
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K6WTkCxz9N0
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8iOtWEgnee8
All,
Wow, I never realized that this was such a hotly debated topic until I started searching for noise control systems for my Harley. I have been riding for a few years, and have been out of the country most of my adult life serving overseas. I have a feeling that many riders think that they are cool for making the amount of noise they do, as evidenced by the many exhausts available that specifically cater to exhaust notes. I would like to think however, that there is a distinction made between riders in general, and obnoxious riders. There are a lot of constructive comments and riders inputs here, and then there is the hateful speech on both sides, and while I understand the frustration, I never understand such anger, such distain, such a blanket categorization and labeling of a group of people…not even a race, color, religion, or gender identity, but simply how they choose to commute!
As many commenters offering constructive criticism have noted, I would take this fight both to the manufacturers of these off-road only exhausts, as well as to Harley itself. Having owned a Japanese sport bike (completely stock), and loving it, I found the price point and the look of my Sportster to be a very inviting way to get into the cruiser market. It was only after reading owner forums and through my own experience that I learned the lack of pride and innovation put into the bike by Harley. Shoot, the horn is barely rated to emit 80db which is what standard traffic hums along at. Who would think of that when buying a bike? Nonetheless, the bike has been purchased, and it is my commuter until I decided to buy a car or truck. So all this to say, here I am, looking for ways to improve the performance of my bike using legal and approved technology, because the manufacturer sells a sub-par product, something many people won’t understand until they have put the vehicle through it’s paces after purchase.
With regards to obnoxious sounding bikers being obnoxious in other ways, I would say, yeah probably. I don’t know an American (or human) alive who doesn’t some have vices and obnoxious tendencies. But won’t legal action and possibly class action suits go a lot further than calling motorcycles phallic symbols? Not every rider rides to be a part of the “Cult” as it is phrased. Sure, we ride in groups because it is an experience to be enjoyed and shared but I know that the military members I ride with at least, go to great lengths to ensure their safety (Kevlar, vests, full face helmets, riding pants, boots, etc.) without needing noise to do the job of warding off the occasional cocooned/distracted motorist.
Last but not least, from what I have seen, this issue I’ve faced with my Harley is indicative of an ongoing major problem with many American manufacturers…they are stuck in the past, with very little innovation and relying heavily on the aftermarket (3rd party vendors and tuners) to give their brand name any viability. Look at every Ford Mustang…ever. Look at the Dodge/Chevy/Ford/GMC trucks all over the road. Look at the antique vehicles the run the road with impunity, as if seat belts and exhausts are no longer important after 25 years. By comparison, even the many teens racing Japanese vehicles with aftermarkets don’t thunder as loudly. All in all, my point is that the problem isn’t loud bikers…it’s America. Love it, change it, or leave it, but leave the labeling and name calling with the noisy four year old rattle toys where they belong – out of meaningful discussion.
Ken L.
You make some very good points and I agree with you that not all riders should lumped into the “loud motorcycle culture” category. I also agree with you about some of the criticism of the motorcycling community being posted by some, especially that focusing on motorcycles as phallic symbols, is not all that constructive.
But what is being perceived as “hate speech” and off-base nonconstructive criticism by some people is their way of expressing their displeasure and frustration with only a troublesome and defiant segment of the motorcycling community. They are fed up with that segment of the motorcycling community often referred to as “loud bikers”, and the excessivie, unnecessary and unlawful noise pollution their illegally modified motorcycles have been assaulting them with for years. I really don’t think those frustrated people hate motorcycles or those who ride them in general. Although they could and should express themselves better, their rancor is focused only on the members of the loud riding segment of the motorcycling community. I acknowledge that their rhetoric could be toned down a bit and should focus more on moving toward a rational solution to the problem.
I think you will agree that the strict and active enforcement of the pertinent motorcycle noise and muffler laws are a major part of that solution and one that has been seriously lacking. In fact, your comment “But won’t legal action and possibly class action suits go a lot further than calling motorcycles phallic symbols?” indicates that you do indeed agree that legal action is needed to deal with the problem, and that would include legislative action as well, something the motorcycle rights organizations don’t agree with and activly seek to block. Yes, the MROs are also a big part of the problem.
Ken, I am happy to hear that your are not a member or apologist for the “loud biker” segment of the motorcycling community, but that you are a rational and responsible motorcyclist who sees no need at all to ride loud or illegally tamper with the noise emission control devices of federally and state regulated motorcycles, a perfectly valid, lawfully recognized, useful and popular type of motor vehicle that nobody should hate.
The question here is not that motorcycles or their riders in general are a problem, nor are the citizens who complian about them, but that illegally modified and excessively loud motorcycles and their riders are a problem, as well as the segment of the motorcycle industry that caters to their penchant to make noise and aids and abets them in violating federal and state laws are very big problem. They have unfortunately given the general motorcycling community a bad name and has been harming the general public who have become fed up with the problem they are the cause of.
Ken, if you would like to discuss this issue with me in more deatial contact me at ld1958(at)yahoo.com and maybe you might want to join me and others who seek to have the loud motorcycle problem effect addressed and those loud pipes legally muted. Make the appropriate adjustments to my email address. You should know what to do about the (at) part. That is a spam mitigation measure.
harley riders have them for idiots driving in cars because people driving in cars aren’t paying attention their texting talking on the cell phone while driving and everything else if a car pulls out in front of you or cuts u off merges into ur lane on a bike ur going to hit the car or lose control and their is no 2500 pound of metal and airbags to protect you from injury they only weight 350-600 pounds on two wheels and drivers can’t hear horns so if you have really really loud exhaust pipes you put the clutch in and ramp the engine wide open and they will hear it. it would be different if drivers would pay attention to motorcycles but they don’t and the don’t care about any one but their selves. so its not for a culture or to piss others off its for safety. most people driving cars are idiots and don’t pay attention and some of them even see motorcycles but they pull out in front of motorcycles anyways they frankly don’t care.
“most people driving cars are idiots and don’t pay attention and some of them even see motorcycles but they pull out in front of motorcycles anyways they frankly don’t care”
You tell me who the idiot is.
I see, Dean. By your “logic” we should have our state “mufflers required” laws repealed for “safety”.
Or better yet, in addition to repealing the muffler laws we should have a law put on the books to prohibit mufflers on all motor vehicles. And perhaps mandate that all motor vehicles emit minimum exhaust noise levels at all times while they in use on public highways so that they can be heard for blocks so that all of their operators know all the other vehicles are in the vicinity so as to supposedly avoid crashing into each them. Or do you propose that only motorcycles should be exempt from the muffler and noise laws? I think you are proposing just that.
Is that really sensible or logical? Dave expressed that very succinctly “You tell me who the idiot is?”. Dave knows who’s logic is faulty, and so do all motorcycle noise battered citizens, not to mention the rule of law.
No, Dean. Your “LPSL” “logic” is not sensible. Public policy recognizes no such thing and the laws prohbit the very thing you are proposing and are trying to justify.
Dean, you are invoking a classic loud bikers canard, the old and long debunked and nonsensical “Loud Pipes Saves Lives” excuse for causing excessivie noise and violating numerous laws to create it.
It matters not why you or any loud biker violates the law and rides loud with illegal loud pipes. Your desires and excuses do not prevail over rational public policy. The rule of law trumps all of your desires and excuses for being public noise nuisances.
Case closed. The LPSL canard is just that, a canard that in no way justifies violating the rule of law and riding loud..
Dean, If you are too scared to ride in traffic without making noise, then maybe motorcycles are not for you. Maybe you should ride the bus instead.
Making noise 100% of the time you are riding when you only need to alert the texting drivers when you are in their immediate vicinity is a huge burden on everyone within half a mile of your route. That’s thousands of people who have to put up with your outrageous noise!
It’s much easier and quicker to simply push your horn button with your left thumb than it is to pull in the clutch and then rap the throttle.
So I guess someone with a ricer car with loud exhaust and subwoofers on full blast is perfectly fine accords to ur logic.
Dean, Um, no, loud pipes are bad no matter what vehicle they are on. They are unessessary and obnoxious. How in the world did you conclude that “my logic” would allow them?
Notice that Dean says “Harley riders have them…”.
Harley riders have what? Loud pipes, of course. “Loud pipes” meaning illegally modified exhaust systems. And they don’t modify them to render their motorcycle noise emissions quieter than as they were originally and legally factory equipped to be. Otherwise, why call those modified exhaust systems “loud pipes”?
So what Dean and those modified Harley and other modified motorcycle riders are openly admitting to is illegally modifying their motorcycles to render them excessively and unlawfully loud. And they do that by equipping them with illegal after market exhaust systems known as “loud pipes”.
More precisely stated, loud pipes are motorcycle exhaust systems “for use on closed course motorcycle only” and not for use on public highways. And those illegal for highway use exhaust systems can be identified. Even their manufactures admit that they are not legal for use on public highways.
in addition, those loud pipes are illegal as they obviously do not effectively prevent “excessive or unusual noise” as many state muffler and exhaust noise laws explicitly require. They do the opposite as their users and manufactures admit.
So if the unbearable and unlawful loudness of illegally modified Harleys and other loud motorcycles are to ever be muted and brought under control, those illegal loud pipes must be targeted and taken off those loud motorcycles and replaced with legal and unaltered exhaust systems as the most fundamental and necessary first step in making sure loud motorcycles are as rare as hens teeth. All 50 states must adopt and enforce anti-tampering motor vehicle exhaust system polices.
Those loud pipes must go. Those loud pipes, the root cause of unbearable loud Harleys, must be be the focus motorcycle noise control. It’s about time that policy was put into effect and energetically enforced.
Hello Dean, I see that you’re an advocate of the Loud Pipes Save Lives myth…having owned, operated, maintained, 31 motorcycles since I was age 12. Having ridden professionally for years and accumulated many hundreds-of-thousands-of-miles on motorcycles, I decided to publish a video debunking this popular lie promulgated by the Loud Motorcycle Cult[ure] and the Biker Rights Groups. The video can be seen at: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qRxyoSj4sNU
Rick Holtsclaw, Houston PD/Retired
Loud Motorcycles Suck – Facebook and YouTube
Hello Rick
Thanks for the video great info u have open my eyes on this wonderful thanks u and have a wonderful day.
Oh Dean, you’re so kind…but it’s not your eyes I want to open, but then again, rhetoric concerning respect for one’s neighbor, common decency, being a gentleman, kind, courteous, these are elusive social mores that the Loud Biker Cult[ure] is unable to internalize. Let’s face it, “men” don’t assault children, the elderly, our handicapped, our families, with unregulated motor vehicle noise. “Men” don’t make excuses for misbehavior and disrespect, criminal, behavior.
After 31 years as a patrol officer in the 4th largest Municipality in the United States, after policing the Loud Biker Cult[ure] for years – after citing and incarcerating more than my share of hedonistic, arrogant, entitled, selfish, thuggish, vulgar, LOUD bikers – I know that respectable, relevant, fact-filled, rhetoric is NOT a viable option – I only contribute for information sake.
If you doubt my summation of the Loud Biker Personality, please see my WordPress article where I’ve chronicled a few of the LOUD biker comments I receive in response to my stance against the thuggish behavior: https://rickeyholtsclaw.wordpress.com/2015/09/04/loud-biker-mentality-1949-v-21st-century/
Have a very nice day Dean,
Rick Holtsclaw
Loud Motorcycles Suck –
Facebook and YouTube
My comment to anyone is, why don’t you see us? I and most of us would have quiet pipes if only people on the road and for that mater those walking across the road would know we are there! Our lives and our passengers lives are at risk every time we go out on the road. We cant have big triangular orange warning signs or air bags surrounding us so we use sound. It seems you always notice us when we are getting gas or food, but most accidents involving bikes and cars (or trucks for that mater) are caused by the driver of the 4 wheel (or more wheels) vehicle. By their own admittance the driver usually says “I didn’t see the bike”. I’m sorry I offend you with my loud pipes but at least I know you know I’m here!
Tin Man – Please stop promulgating the lie that Loud Pipes Save Lives. I have owned-operated-maintained 31 motorcycles since age 12; have ridden professionally for years and accumulated many hundreds-of-thousands-of-miles on motorcycles – Loud Pipes Save Lives is an utter myth and simply nothing but a very poor excuse for illegal, obnoxious, irresponsible, bully, behavior. NEVER has NOISE been a factor in my safety! I have published a video on this silly subject at: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qRxyoSj4sNU
I have also recently filed a Federal Lawsuit over motorcycle NOISE and biker rallies PDF version at: http://static.lakana.com/nxsglobal/nwahomepage/document_dev/2016/02/12/3296_001_7003391_ver1.0.pdf
STOP the motorcycle NOISE nonsense! If you can’t ride the thing without making a complete obnoxious nuisance out of yourself, please, buy a truck!
Rick Holtsclaw
Concerned Citizens Against Loud Motorcycles CCALM – Facebook
What a MORON. You have no moral right Tin Man to violate my ears. You are DAMAGING my ears. Anything past 85 causes damage after exposure to a certain time. Anything over 100 can cause damage quite easily and quickly. MANY have tinnitus and hearing damage from loud noise exposures and you think you can make it even worse?
You’re lucky you don’t live near me, I’ll tell you that right now.
Outstanding, Rick!
I for one can appreciate your efforts here.
The loud pipes save lives moniker is nothing but an excuse to boost the weak power output and egotistical nature of the typical Harley Rider. As another post stated, ride as if you are invisible. That being said, even if the Invisible Man had an atomic bomb for a horn, it would not be as beneficial to his safety as being aware, riding defensively, and staying out of others blind spots.
I do ride motorcycles and apparently it is for different reasons then the aforementioned annoyingly loud types.
These people are obviously in dire need of attention as witnessed by the constant blipping of the throttle at a stoplight. “Hey, look at ME!”
Most people that I know ride for the fun and the freedom that it gives them. I don’t know about you, but I don’t feel too free when riding stoplight to stop light in town or through a neighborhood.
Loud pipes for safety sake makes about as much sense to me as a “baby on board” sticker in an attempt to ensure the safety of YOUR baby.
I find it highly amusing to see fully grown, “mature” adults pitch fits over things they have no control over.
Yes, I own a Harley. Yes, I have an aftermarket exhaust system on it. No, you do not have a say in what I can and can’t do to my motorcycle; my Harley is MY property and I will modify it as I see fit.
If you don’t like it, then you’re S.O.L.
Anyone interested, here are two items that may explain the motorcycle noise debacle in greater depth…
Federal Lawsuit over Biker Rallies: http://static.lakana.com/nxsglobal/nwahomepage/document_dev/2016/02/12/3296_001_7003391_ver1.0.pdf
My article: The Truth about Loud Motorcycles the Police Can’t or Won’t tell you: https://rickeyholtsclaw.wordpress.com/2016/03/10/the-truth-about-loud-motorcycles-the-police-wont-or-cant-tell-you/
Rick Holtsclaw, Houston PD/Retired
Concerned Citizens Against Loud Motorcycles – Facebook
Scipio, your attitude is indicative of one who is irresponsible; has absolutely no respect for his neighbor or his neighbor’s family; cares nothing for the health and welfare of our children, our elderly, our handicapped; has internalized a sense of entitlement where he wrongly assumes he is above the rule of law and is basically and for all intent and purpose – a bully consumed with Moral Relativism. You have absolutely no legal or moral right to enter into our homes, our places of worship, our businesses, our schools, our daycare facilities, with your illegal, intrusive noise – how have you come to a point in time where you think there are no consequences for your pride and arrogance?
Rick Holtsclaw, Houston PD/Retired
Concerned Citizens Against Loud Motorcycles – Facebook
Again, there’s nothing you do but stand on your soapbox and flap your gums, and you seem to have plenty of hot air in your lungs.
I suppose you never told anyone else here that you didn’t really retire… you were fired, right? If I remember correctly, for several personal attacks on individuals on online motorcycle message boards, and for ignoring more serious crimes in lieu of chasing down noise violations.
You were given the duty to protect the citizens of Houston, and you decided to abuse your position of authority to further your personal crusade.
And you dare to say “shame on me”?
No. Shame on you.
I think the biker mentality is really sick. We need more officers like Rick Holtsclaw who actually show some courage and are not afraid of bikers as are most police. The very loud and unnecessary noise from Harleys is due to illegal exhausts, and the riders deserve citations, and fines for this crime.
Scipio exhibits the personality of most Harley riders- “Screw you; I can do anything I want.”
Indeed, Mr. Scipio’s attitude is all too common among those who ride illegally modifed and excessively loud motorcyles and his rather defiant assertion that he can do as he please and illegally modify his motorcycle in stark violation of state and federal laws is totally wrong. Perhaps Mr. Scipio needs a date with the court where he can tell it to the Judge and flick his defiant middle finger in the face of the Judge and the rule of law he so despises.
I think the outlaw biker mentality of Scipio is really sick. We need more officers like Rick Holtsclaw who actually show some courage and are not afraid of bikers as are most police. The very loud and unnecessary noise from Harleys is due to illegal exhausts, and the riders deserve citations, and fines for this crime.
Scipio exhibits the personality of most Harley riders- “Screw you; I can do anything I want.”
It is ultimately futile because there is a whole army of bikers out there just like me. We have the manpower, the lobbying power, and the muscle to bend or change whatever law or ordinance we see fit; We are Legion. We will never stop multiplying and we will never go away. Lock one of us up, and ten more of us will take his place; We are the Hydra.
With lobby groups like ABATE fighting for our rights and 1%ers to back us up, WE RULE.
Maybe I am nothing more than a thug in your eyes, Ricky boy, but quite frankly I don’t really care what others think of me. So, try again.
Scipio my boy, glad you said what you did. Your arrogance is getting the best of you. This is just the kind of evidence we need to start showing our elected officials and law enforcement the true colors of your group. The same group that hides behind charity rides. I am sending a copy of this to my elected officials right now to show them your true colors and those like you. Good work 😉
Go ahead, send it in. Methinks your elected official more than likely has bigger fish to fry than read some busybody’s whiny letter.
Also, I AM law enforcement. State patrol, in fact.
Be careful where you go and watch your speed. cause if I pull you over iN MY turf… I might just find something in your trunk. Something bad.
Have a good day, and drive safe! 🙂
You know what really gets me about guys like Scipio is not so much that they believe in something, or feel like they’re right in some way, but that not a damn one of them ever acknowledges the fact that they might be harming someone. “Screw you. I will do what I want, because… F you.”
Not, “I know I might be ruining scores of peoples’ sleep and their next day, or waking their kids up at night, and I’m sorry, but I need my loud bike because I really believe it is for the greater good.”
Nope. It’s just F you all the way around. I woke you up? Good. There are more people just like me. Deal with it.
What pushes your buttons? Got a daughter? Got a pedophile in the hood? Hey, maybe let him have at it with her, and F you too. At least the neighbors would be sleeping while your precious is learning how thugs operate.
Scipo, yes, your self-identifier pretty well sums it up. You may consider you and yours as above and beyond the rule of law, but there exists an eternal rule of law and truism that you and yours will never counter and you can take this to the bank, “You will reap what you sow.” Some call it Karma, but the fact is, One who is infinitely smarter than you has made that statement of fact and promise – and it is most apropos considering your pride, arrogance and disrespect. So ride on and “do your own thing,” disrespect your neighbor, shake your fist toward the heavens in rebellion to the rule of law, audibly assault our most innocent and defenseless with impunity for the One who has authority over your next breath and your destiny has clearly stated “Pride comes before a fall.”
Rick Holtsclaw, Houston PD/Retired
Concerned Citizens Against Loud Motorcycles – Facebook
So you’re a cop… and a crooked one at that based on what you just stated. You know the law, defy it openly, and then when someone challenges you, you’ll be the lowest of the low and plant evidence on an innocent because they dared to challenge you.
So let me get this straight. You’re a law breaker in a position of power, intent on using the law against an innocent person because the innocent person had a problem with you breaking the law. I hope I summed that up correctly. You should be ashamed of yourself.
You are a very sick and depraved person. You are a disgrace to law enforcement and to humanity.
Hey, I look out for my brothers… heck, we all look out for each other. Better than what y’all can say about the rest of society.
Also, I should mention that we don’t go after vehicles with modified exhaust systems simply because we have more important things to attend to. I have approximately 200 miles of country highway spiderwebbed over 4 countries under MY watch, and every mile must be patrolled every day… and did I forget to mention that people in my patrol area do not know how to drive? On top of the daily accident calls, I hand out an ungodly amount of citations for idiotic driving.
So, even though y’all might not see it the same way, a noisy motorcycle is NOT a direct safety hazard like speeding, running a stop sign, or padding in a no passing zone is. Therefore, we don’t bother.
Also, I’m out in the freakin’ country! The only thing there is that a loud motorcycle could disturb is rows of crops & occasionnal cattle!
I look out for my brothers and they look out for me, too. The law abiding ones that are trying to get a good night’s sleep so they can get up, go to work and provide for their families. The rest of society – you mean the ones that couldn’t care less about the law and how breaking it might affect my brothers and our families?
Is the reason that you don’t go after vehicles with (illegally) modified exhaust systems because you have one yourself and don’t want to be a hypocrite? Well that can’t be it, because you want to frame innocent people for crimes they didn’t commit because they dare to voice their dislike for your disregard of the laws. Listen, if you don’t have time to bother with the loud jerks, that’s one thing. That’s not what it is and you know it.
Of course we don’t all see it the same way. If we all agreed and did the right thing, there would be no need for laws. But there is a need. And having a compliant exhaust is the law, and there’s a need for it. If you don’t agree with it, then work on getting it changed if it’s unjust. Even though you don’t see it the same way as those of us who are affected by it. I couldn’t care less about the loud bikes driving on 200 mile stretches of empty highway, especially if there are more important things for you to worry about, being the good man that you are, enforcing the laws and all. But I care about stopping the arrogant jerks who rev their motors past my home at all hours of the day or night with total disregard for everyone in their path, and you should too.
Please, tell me what you have to say about those whose homes you intrude into with your obnoxious, unlawful and unwanted noise.
Better yet, I’ll let the police records from the communities I go through tell you what everyone thinks, and it seems like nobody cares. Noise complaints from motorcycle exhaust are incredibly rare, and I’m in an area with a LOT of motorcycles.
So, it’s come to my conclusion that the vast majority in my area either ride themselves or have better things to do than whine about loud bikes. Maybe you could learn a few things from them?
Scipio, OR what is more probable is that most people do not know that motorcycles are not loud from the factory. The ALL must meet U.S. EPA regulations for noise and particulate emissions. Even in your state you are REQUIRED to have a muffler that is OEM or equivalent AND you are not permitted to remove the emissions control equipment.
The other reasons are because people know the police won’t do anything AND are afraid of retaliation and bullying. You, being a State Trooper AND a biker have proven this reason by your comments, beliefs, lifestyle and vocation.
@Scipio
“there is a whole army of bikers out there just like me. We have the manpower, the lobbying power, and the muscle to bend or change whatever law or ordinance we see fit”
This is a joke right? You can’t possibly be serious… I have yet to hear a valid response as to why it is bikers have such loud bikes.Can anyone explain why else they are so loud without using the words “desperate” “attention” or “overcompensating?”
Don’t waste your energy guys. It’s next to impossible to teach lower lifeforms about something broader than their pathetic self-preserving mindset.
As a 31 year veteran of the Houston Police Department, please listen to me…
1) Attending the Houston Police Academy in 1979 and entering retirement in 2011, I had the opportunity to watch my morally conservative, law abiding, hard-charging law enforcement entity morph into a Politically Correct, morally compromising, apathetic, complacent embarrassment.
2) If Scipio is LE, don’t be surprised at his vulgarity, his arrogance, selfishness and compromise. Actually, he is sadly a representative of far too many men and women wearing a badge today. After all, you MUST remember that a law enforcement entity is simply a microcosm of the society in which it serves. Have you taken a good, long, hard, look at our young men today?
3) Our society has eschewed its long established Biblical roots and thoroughly compromised itself with the Hellish ideology of Moral Relativism and it’s illegitimate son, Iconic Tolerance – Scipio is indicative of this societal metamorphosis – as society goes – so goes the institutions that represent that society.
4) The operation of an illegally LOUD motorcycle, automobile, truck on our public roadways is indicative of a much deeper, morally based, problem in our society. As a law enforcement officer, I fought the exponential increase of illegal vehicular noise and made every attempt to intercede on behalf of the vehicular noise beleaguered citizenry in Houston – all I received for my efforts was heartache, accusations, betrayal.
I continue to fight simply because of my desire to be obedient to my Lord’s will – but, the American citizen is too lethargic, apathetic, cowardly, unconcerned, ignorant to be relied upon to stop the vehicular NOISE nonsense. Personally, I believe the Courts are the only viable option, but I’ll continue to educate, to get the message out there in hopes of finding a few brave citizens willing to stand and take our streets back from the vehicular noise-bully-thugs. I’ve included some links for those who are interested in knowing just exactly what we’re up against…this just a sampling, but a start….
Rick Holtsclaw, Houston PD/Retired
Concerned Citizens Against Loud Motorcycles – Facebook
Lawsuit: http://static.lakana.com/nxsglobal/nwahomepage/document_dev/2016/02/12/3296_001_7003391_ver1.0.pdf
See: https://rickeyholtsclaw.wordpress.com/2016/04/04/loud-motorcycle-culture-a-federal-lawsuit-your-point/
Thugs with Badges: https://rickeyholtsclaw.wordpress.com/2015/09/21/loud-motorcycle-thugs-with-badges-an-embarrassment/
Houston Police and Loud Bikers: https://rickeyholtsclaw.wordpress.com/2015/08/29/houston-police-officers-compromise-integrity-wloud-motorcycle-culture/
The Truth About Loud Motorcycles: https://rickeyholtsclaw.wordpress.com/2016/03/10/the-truth-about-loud-motorcycles-the-police-wont-or-cant-tell-you/
Letter to HPD Chief: https://rickeyholtsclaw.wordpress.com/2015/09/21/letter-to-chief-mcclelland-inre-to-motorcycle-noise-enforcement/
I’ve had just about enough of you Mr. Holtsclaw, and so has the biker community. I’m giving a couple LE friends in Texas a call, and call in a favor.
watch your back, Mr. Holtsclaw. I see 30 days in the Hole in your future…
Is it really worth while debating with Mr. Scipio who clearly has nothing of value to contribute to this discussion about excessively loud motorcycles? He has made it clear that he has nothing but contempt for the laws he and his ilk openly admit to violating and has no respect for the rights of motorcycle noise battered citizens. He has resorted to making threats to those who are critical of those who violate laws and ride excessively loud motorcycles as a result. Who cares what he thinks? He is on the wrong side of the issue and his defiant and irrational rhetoric is of no value at all.
Hey Scipio, how did you know it’s my birthday today – you made me smile. Hey, my personal information is on the lawsuit link…why call Texas – heck, I know most of the HPD guys in the Los Carnales anyway – why don’t you call me personally and we can have a chat?
Rick Holtsclaw, Houston PD/Retired
Concerned Citizens Against Loud Motorcycles – Facebook
Wrong! My friends are with the state police. They ride. They know all about you and your track record. And they hate your guts.
Yes, I understand. I am hated with a passion by a very large segment of bikers in the State of Texas and Arkansas. But, that is to be expected when one makes an affirmative stance against a behavior so very coveted and idolized by a deceived, arrogant, selfish, group of immature men who have internalized a false sense of entitlement.
Yes, they wanted be dead – published a pigs head with a police hat on stating “Off the Pig.” Had to bring police security into my traffic court to ensure the bikers did not riot or attack me while I testified against them…yes, I am fully aware of the hatred the Loud Biker Cult[ure] and the Motorcycle Rights Organizations have for me…but that’s just the way it is and through it all I maintained a 99.8% conviction rate for all vehicular noise citations brought before me for trial, I jailed those that were wanted or simply needed to go to jail and cited the others…truth be told, I miss it dearly!!!
Have you seen some of your fellow loud biker comments regarding CCALM and my enforcement initiative recently…here is just a sampling – you will find yourself empowered by their comments – your brothers in leather: https://rickeyholtsclaw.wordpress.com/2015/09/04/loud-biker-mentality-1949-v-21st-century/
Rick Holtsclaw, Houston PD/Retired
Concerned Citizens Against Loud Motorcycles – Facebook
Scorpio is real ballsy hiding behind a pseudonym… some day maybe he’ll man up and own his views by using his legal name.
Holtsclaw obviously is a bigger and truer man.
i’ve got a better idea, rickey boy… i’ll be in waynesville, missouri for a club rally july 7-11 for a regional club rally, in sandusky, ohio labor day weekend for a national club rally, and possibly in fayettesville for bikes, blues, & bbq. come on out and we can have a sitdown… face-to-face.
unless you’re chicken.
Many model Harley Davidson’s are quite loud, but not all. BMW makes motorbikes that are much quieter. There are many Americans who are brash, outspoken, banal, vulgar, ethnocentric, zenophobic and on and on in the negative and more than a few of them find the noise of the Harley the perfect mate for their personalities. God bless bicyclists, hikers, walkers who help keep healthcare costs down and the people who understand we live in an increasingly noisy world and excessive noise over long periods has repeatedly been shown by scientific studies to damage health. There are people who are indifferent and make no difference, there are people who speak out against the degradation of our quality of life by the assaultive nature of excessive noisy activities, and there are those who create the problems of excessive noise that degrades mental health and physical well-being of those exposed to it, of which many of the Harley riders, loud truck drivers, loud vehicle sound systems, etc. greatly contribute to. Private pilots low flying over residential areas is another problem as well, but that is a group in a generally higher economic class with special privleges and friends in powerful positions to protect them from local town ordinances. Pity. Harley riders escape strong noise regulations because many in law enforcement themselves ride Harley Davidson’s, Harley’s are perceived as an American icon, Harley Davidson riders are perceived as “good guys” through programs like “Toys for Tots”, et al. There is nothing good about prolonged excessive noise for human health mentally or physically. There is no easy answer to the problems of increasing noise, but there is no doubt that Harley Davidson is a part of the problem, not part of the solution. Don’t get me started about “performance” shops where truck drivers go to alter their vehicle exhaust systems, etc. The southwestern United States is chock full of modified vehicles that would never pass a road side smog/dB noise test. Take that to the bank.
Scipio is simply a child troll who enjoys a fetish of inciting emotion and responses from the safety of his keyboard. He is probably in his mid-to-late teens, underdeveloped physically and lacks social skills – this form of behavior provides Scipio a sense of worth and meaning due to an inordinate desire for attention. Anyone who refuses to identify themselves while engaging in such conduct is a dedicated coward and antisocial misfit – don’t take Scipio seriously – and don’t respond, he will move on in his insignificance as he desperately searches for feedback from members of an unwary forum.
Rick Holtsclaw, Houston PD/Retired
Concerned Citizens Against Loud Motorcycles – Facebook
Very well said Geoffrey.
I see don’t the value in a protracted debate with Mr. Scipio and those of his ilk. He is just in here to intimidate those who correctly point out who is at fault with respect to the excessively loud motorcycle issue and the root cause of the problem. He and his defiant comrades are trying to obfuscate the issue and goad critics of their unlawful and anti-social behaviour into making statements they can use to dismiss their criticism and use to attack and discredit them.
It is not those irrational and defiant motorcycle noise scofflaws you have to worry about. It is the much slicker motorcycle “rights” activists (con artists is the better word) that you have to worry about and debate with when facing them in efforts to have the laws motorcycle noise scofflaws enforced and better laws and enforcement policies enacted at the state and federal level, especially those that address the root cause of the problem. That root cause is the widespread, chronic and illegal tampering with motorcycle noise and air pollution emission control devices and their power trains.
The excessivie noise that illegal hanky panky causes is plainly obvious and it is that illegal tampering which causes it that must be targeted. The illegal loud pipes those scofflaws have been getting away with putting on their motorcycles must be kept off those motorcycles. It is not difficult to recognize those illicit products that are clearly in violation of federal regulations and many state muffler laws that in way or another require factory equivalent mufflers.
Straight pipes are a classic and easily recognized example of an exhaust system that in no way is factory equivalent and that are very popular with the loud pipe crowd. Straight pipes are a subset of the more general class of motorcycle exhaust systems that are not factory equivalent, are designated by federal law as “for use on closed courses only” and that are not legal for use on highway motorcycles, regardless of whether or not they have “baffles” in them. And the manufactures of those products openly admit that their products are “for use on closed courses only”. Indeed they are and must be kept off highway motorcycles.
It is that root cause of the loud motorcycle problem that the defiant loud pipe scofflaws and their sick motorcycle “rights” con artists desperately seek to have ignored by the authorities. Their obfuscation tactics and motorcycle “rights” lobbying stradgey focus on dismissing the issue, misinforming the authorities on the issue, portraying the motorcycling community as “victims” of “unfair” criticism and “discrimination”, misdirecting attention away from the root cause of the problem, weakening the laws addressing the problem, especially the muffler laws, and generally dissuading the authorities from cracking down on the problem and enforcing the pertinent laws.
The slick motorcycle “rights” con artists do not invoke the LPSL canard when carrying out that stradgey, for they know better than to put forth such an irrational argument that is clearly tantamount to an open admission of violating the legitimate rule of law. So why waist time debating with the addle minded and irrational LPSL scofflaws? Loud pipes are illegal, period. It is the rule of law that has the first and last word on the issue, not loud motorcycle scofflaws.
Some pep
Let me add to the chorus of people saying that you’ve misread the report on auto accidents you cite:
“A 2007 study by the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration found that motorcyclists were overwhelmingly responsible for causing accidents with passenger vehicles. In nearly three-fourths of the two-vehicle motorcycle crashes involving passenger vehicles, the motorcycle was the striking vehicle.”
Motorcycles strike cars because cars pull out in front of them, which makes the cars responsible. 5 minutes on a motorcycle would make that clear to you, but you can also refer to the Hurt Report (see wikipedia), which blames 2/3 of motorcycle/automobile accidents on automobiles, specifically a failure to yield.
Also, while there’s no doubt that lots of a-holes make their Harley’s needlessly loud, my mostly stock Harley is around 70db, which is comparable to my Yamaha, my Suzuki, and significantly quieter than my Juke with the hood open. I also get 45+ mpg.
Educate yourself.
” there’s no doubt that lots of a-holes make their Harley’s needlessly loud,”
The a-holes are what this post is about. Not you.
No one’s arguing that there aren’t crazy car drivers all over the place.
well ricky boy, you’ve just proved one thing to me: you’re a coward. you’re more than happy to sit behind your computer screen and call us bullies and thugs, but given the invitation to meet face-to-face and you back away like a spineless, gutless COWARD.
so i’m calling you out. come and meet me; tell me everything you want to tell me TO MY FACE like a MAN.
i’ve given you dates & locations. now, are you gonna show up like a real man, or tuck tail and run like the coward you are?
Scipio is some sick mofo. With that stupid warrior mentality and amount of nutty aggression, a person with his personality is not someone who should be a cop. He is bound to end up in violent confrontations (probably already has done so) because he intentionally escalates conflicts rather than resolves them.
Yes Scipio, I am very fearful of you and your words have intimidated to the point of sleeplessness. You are definitely “the man” here and your courage and tenacity are simply toooo much for my manhood; therefore, I acknowledge your dominance and leadership. Thank you for permitting me this humble response and I beg for your forgiveness and understanding. Thank you for showing me mercy and please forgive my indiscretions. Gig’em Aggies!!!
With endearment,
Rick Holtsclaw, Houston PD/Retired
Concerned Citizens Against Loud Motorcycles – C-CALM Facebook
Yes Scipio, I am very fearful of you and your words have intimidated me to the point of sleeplessness. You are definitely “the man” here and your courage and tenacity are simply toooo much for my manhood; therefore, I acknowledge your dominance and leadership. Thank you for permitting me this humble response and I beg for your forgiveness and understanding. Thank you for showing me mercy and please forgive my indiscretions. Gig’em Aggies!!!
With endearment,
Rick Holtsclaw, Houston PD/Retired
Concerned Citizens Against Loud Motorcycles – C-CALM Facebook
I’m 61, been riding since 1970…most makes and models…Harley, Triumph, Honda etc.
My observation over the decades, is that the police..well at least here in Canada, have given up. Washed their hands of the whole issue. None of my Harley’s had straight pipes, and one was a 1950 FL “chopper” , with louder-than-stock pipes, but there were baffles in them, as you would be pulled over and tested roadside if they heard you. I was pulled over constantly. They carried little Db meters, and I can’t remember the rules back then, but if you were over, you were ticketed…if you beaked off…if you watched your P’s and Q’s it meant a warning, and 24 hrs to appear at the closest station with the “corrected item” available for inspection. Our Capitol city used…and they may still, had regular “blitzes” on the downtown core to try and keep a lid on the noise. There was a point where 2-300 bikes…most HD with straight pipes, would gather downtown…I guess complaints from the American Embassy will get some action…eh? 😉
BTW, Marlon Brando, Steve McQueen, Clint Eastwood…the list goes on, all rode Triumphs…in the Classics…”The Wild Ones,
The Great Escape” and many more. They were the bikes…and the men (and women..Anne Margaret rode a Bonneville) who shaped the “American” legend of the “urban biker/Outlaw.” America Embraced the Harley, because the market was flooded with cheap and numerous post-war surplus bikes..mainly the venerable 45’s. That, and the rest, is history. Another little historical tidbit. Read page 53 of Sonny Barger’s autobiography “Hells Angel” …appears the badass of all badasses prefers Hondas and BMW’s of HD…especially the Honda ST1100.
I have no idea how Db’s relate to real life concerning distances, but I live about 3kms (1.5 miles) from a major highway, with just farmland and woods in between, and I can still hear the straight pipes on the highway…and I’m an old half deaf soldier.
I recently put a baffle in my Tiger, because I just did not want to be part of the problem. It wasn’t that loud, but loud enough for my neighbours to “jokingly comment” well, thats a BIT quieter than the other one…the other one being a T100 with Predator pipes…too loud. Even with earplugs…on the highway, too loud.
The problem with the millions of loud pipes out there, is that for city dwellers, it has become “white noise” albeit very loud noise” perhaps we can call it “black noise” in deference to the colour of the machines that produce it. It blends in with construction noise, sirens, music, aircraft ad nauseum. If you live out here in the country..where you can hear a pin drop at night, one bike, can wake up an entire county.
I guess my point is, that only politicians can “tone it down a bit”. Im sure with the right dialogue between manufacturers, police, and most importantly, the citizens who occupy the same spaces as the bikes, some sort of agreement can be made.
To turn a blind eye to the laws that are already on the books, is not going to lead to anything productive.
What I do is just go riding when it’s wet or raining out and there’s never any Harleys to concern myself with.
Lol, rainy days are the best. The chrome stays home.
I can’t even begin to count how times my pipes have alerted drivers to my presence that are clearly doing anything but paying attention to their driving. Also, the stupidity of these crybaby comments, along with the ridiculous stereotypes is enough to make me piss my pants laughing. Like the majority of Harley riders are outlaws, raping and pillaging as they roar into your towns, disturbing your tranquil family dinner.
The majority of these comments are the definition of ignorance. Including the fact that doctors, lawyers, cops, teachers, politicians and a whole host of every day, ordinary Americans own and ride Harley-Davidsons. How would I know you ask?! I’ve been selling Harley-Davidsons to those aforementioned people for years!
Take your overly sensitive crybaby comments and cram them up your uptight ass! As someone mentioned earlier, there are much more pressing and urgent issues in this country, than worrying about the whopping 5-10 seconds that a Harley disturbs your precious peace!!!
Bruno2112, you obviously received very little love and education from your parents growing up. Let’s clear this up for you. Pay close attention.
You do not have the right to harm others by your actions and that is what you are doing. Noise and air pollution are harmful and you are the one treading on peoples’ rights. The only reason you think you your noise has alerted other drivers is because you do not use your horn. It is only the Harley riders that have a hard time with this, mostly because of the great insecurities all of you have. We are here to tell you that your noise cannot make up for your lack of feeling like real men.
You can bark all you want and beat your fists on your chest like a Neanderthal. You are the one in the wrong and you are the one that needs to grow up. You do not represent freedom or what America is about. You are everything wrong with this country and the sooner your type dies off the better. BTW, I am a conservative so drop the libtard comments and the rest of the nonsense you are ready to spout. The focus here is on the ill you are creating in this country and not on any other ill.
Own it and fix it.
Gh0st… Haha, you obviously were overly coddled growing up, considering what a namby-pamby, judgmental prick you sound like. By the way smart guy, the actual definition of “Harm” means to physically injure, so when the day comes that my loud pipes actually causes physical harm, I’ll concede. Funny how I never mentioned any particular political affiliation, and yet you said that I dropped “libtard comments”. Hmm, I’ll just go ahead and conclude that since I mentioned “Crybabies” in my earlier post, that perhaps your overly sensitive Liberal ass got offended, and if you are a Conservative (which I highly doubt) you must be part of the old guard Republicans that stuck their noses in people’s business and considered themselves better than everyone else for decades.
Actually, you making reference to me dying aligns you with Liberal thinking. You know, the tolerant Left that is actually the most violent group of people in America. Not to mention that only Climate Change whacko’s seem to get their panties in a bunch with supposed over pollution from motorcycles. Meanwhile, thousands of scientists have come forward confirming that man-made climate change is a hoax! The Left keeps lining their pockets and wasting tax payer dollars, while morons like you swallow every bit of it. Now, if it’s just a simple matter of the poor little baby hearing too much noise, then you need to be the one who dies off. This country already has way too many sensitive Sally’s running around dictating what they think is good for us as it is. Grow a pair Pops! The MINIMAL disturbance that my bike causes only makes up a minuscule part of your existence, and if one were to actually time it, that one bike going up your street aggravated you for at the most, 10 seconds. You blowhards crack me up.
By the way, would you like to compare decibel levels of a Semi truck horn, a car horn, and a motorcycle horn? I also never equated the noise of my bike to my manhood. Nice theory though. Haha
“Take your overly sensitive crybaby comments and cram them up your uptight ass!”
This comment reflects the typical attitude of bikers with loud pipes. These people are vulgar, insensitive to others’ rights, and are overly aggressive. They look that way, they write that way, and they ride their bikes in the same manner.
“By the way smart guy, the actual definition of “Harm” means to physically injure, so when the day comes that my loud pipes actually causes physical harm, I’ll concede.”
Time to concede Bruno. Just google the harmful affects of noise pollution on humans. But let’s be honest here – you really are not going to concede because your noise doesn’t stink right? I mean, a stand up “Amurican” like yourself couldn’t possibly be doing anything that harms others. All that flag-waving, and toy’s for tots excuses to make noise right?
Hear it for at most 10 seconds? You are out of touch. That sound carries for miles. Multiple that by thousands of simpletons making noise from illegally-modified exhausts and we are at an epidemic problem. But once again, you won’t concede any wrong-doing. You are just a selfish brat in a grown up body.
Hello Bruno, retired 31-year police veteran here who has probably cited, incarcerated more loud bikers than most officers in the United States. I’ve owned 31 motorcycles since age 12, have ridden professionally for years and have accumulated many hundreds-of-thousands-of-miles on motorcycles. Let’s make our discussion very elementary – Understand this.
1) The United States EPA has restricted “total” motorcycle noise emissions to 80 dB(A) for 1986 year model street production motorcycles forward for a very good and relevant reason…it has been determined that the 80 dB(A) maximum is the “minimum” safe level of motorcycle noise emissions for exposure by the general public…note that our children, our elderly and our handicapped are especially sensitive to the injurious physiological and psychological ramification of unregulated motor vehicle noise.
2) The #1 destroyer of good quality of life standards, on a daily basis, for many millions of American Citizens in the United States, especially those living in our congested urban areas, is unregulated motor vehicle noise.
3) On average, 60% to 80% of the motorcycles operating on our public roadways today have had their quiet, legal, EPA approved, factory-installed muffler removed and replaced with a NOT FOR ROAD USE – CLOSED COURSE – COMPETITION aftermarket exhaust emitting between four-to-eight+ times the legal total motorcycle noise emissions of 80 dB(A) when dB differentials are measured via a logarithmic scale. I’ve personally examined a number of aftermarket exhaust mechanisms via the SAE J2825 Stationary Motorcycle Testing Procedure.
4) Loud Pipes on motorcycles do not Save Lives – this is a myth that has been debunked as far back as 1981 – the Hurt Report – See my video on this subject: Do Loud Pipes Save Lives? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qRxyoSj4sNU&t=16s
5) The US EPA, subsequent to the de-funding of ONAC, delegated complete responsibility for ensuring Federal noise emissions compliance to the States and local governments. In other words, it is our State and local law enforcement entities that are responsible for ensuring that production motorcycles remain in their EPA compliant OEM status. Our State and local law enforcement entities have seriously failed the motor vehicle noise beleaguered citizenry. Our law enforcement is guilty of nonfeasance due to their participation in the illegal conduct of operating an illegally modified/illegally LOUD motor vehicle on our public roadways – due to this violation of their oath of office and duty to protect and serve, the police are in a position of compromise and thus unable to effectively enforce the muffler laws specifically enacted for the protection of our health and welfare as well as our quality of life…their enforcement would be an act of hypocrisy.
6) Fact: “Men” do NOT modify a motor vehicle to make illegal NOISE then proceed out onto our public roadways and use that NOISE to audibly assault children, the elderly, our handicapped, our families. This is the behavior of an irresponsible, arrogant, selfish, hedonistic, narcissistic, bully-brat…NOT a MAN!
Questions? Please see my recent articles on this silly subject at:
Motorcycle Noise Enforcement – 101: https://rickeyholtsclaw.wordpress.com/2016/09/12/motorcycle-noise-enforcement-101/
Loud Motorcycles and the EPA – A Letter and Plea for Intercession: https://rickeyholtsclaw.wordpress.com/2016/09/16/loud-motorcycles-the-epa-a-plea-for-intercession/
The Truth about Loud Motorcycles the Police Won’t or Can’t Tell You: https://rickeyholtsclaw.wordpress.com/2016/03/10/the-truth-about-loud-motorcycles-the-police-wont-or-cant-tell-you/
Rickey D. Holtsclaw, Houston PD/Retired
Concerned Citizens Against Loud Motorcycles – Facebook
Hello yourself Rickey Holtsclaw… With all due respect, I could give two shits that you are or were law enforcement, as it is irrelevant to what constitutes the vast majority of “noise pollution”, and you can also shove your arrogant, patronizing comments about getting “elementary” right up your officious ass. You’re personal experience in detaining or handing out citations to motorcyclists doesn’t make you an authority on the subject, just a local EPA henchman that didn’t have anything better to do on those particular days than to harass a biker out enjoying his freedoms on the open road.
Speaking of law enforcement, I happen to ride with many officers, some with bikes louder than my own. Not to mention the yearly support that my riders give to local FOP’s and Police / Fire Memorial runs where we raise thousands of dollars each year, and when the money is accepted on behalf of these departments, we certainly don’t “hear” anything about the donations. I know that clowns like you feel that bikers hide behind charity rides, but it is a bonafide fact that millions of dollars are raised each year in the US that come directly from bikers and charitable rides, yes, millions, and for a wide variety of causes including the Red Cross, children’s and cancer charities, Wounded Warriors, etc., Bikers and their charity rides generate more charitable dollars than most so called organizations. So while I and many others will ride in sometimes freezing temperatures or pour down rain storms to provide help or relief to someone in need, Mr. & Mrs. Do-gooder will sit on their ass with all their good advice and do nothing, but I digress, let’s get back to the pressing issue of noise pollution.
Let’s talk about what makes up the vast majority of what is actually harmful noise pollution, such as industrialization. From plants, factories and the various equipment they use. Not much to do there though, progress must move forward… Construction activities also create more harmful noises than motorcycles, and then there is of course, transportation. If you live near a freeway, this can certainly have an impact on your “quality of life”, and yet, for every one loud motorcycle that roars by, there are 50-100 cars and trucks (a conservative number to say the least) and the EPA regulations?! What a joke! The radical Left combined with the Climate whacko’s in Washington have brought us over the top, ridiculous regulations that not only unnecessarily impact bikers from the local gestapo such as yourself, but actually affect millions of Americans in business and manufacturing, as well as available jobs. So spare me the sermon on EPA compliance laws. I and millions of others are hopeful that the new Administration will wrangle in the EPA and their farcical regulations.
Finally, what is this fascination that we bikers equate being a man to the modification of our bikes?! Perhaps it could just possibly be the sheer enjoyment of what millions of American men have done with not only their bikes, but their cars, trucks and other vehicles for nearly a hundred years?! Also, an “assault” on our children, the elderly, our handicapped, our families???!!! That is the most ridiculous, over the top, wildly exaggerated drivel I’ve ever heard in my life! Keep writing all the articles you want, you sir, are in the minority. Beside the millions of bikers that whole heartedly disagree with you, there are millions more that simply don’t give a shit! There are literally thousands of more pressing and urgent matters that need addressed in this country besides whether some fuddy-duddy doesn’t like the sound of a motorcycle passing by and disturbed him for all of the 5-10 seconds that he/she actually heard it. By the way, I am a man, an educated man, a working man, a man that provides for my family, pays taxes and contributes to society. THAT is what makes me a MAN!!!Kindly go pound salt and go find a cause that actually means something and is constructive. Perhaps you could take some of that negative energy and help a charity like I do multiple times a year with both my time and money!
“I am a man, an educated man, a working man, a man that provides for my family, pays taxes and contributes to society.”
You have your head to far up your ass Bruno. You are not contributing to society by harming it and violating others rights. Telling us all about how “wonderful” you are does not make up for the harm you do.
Riding with LEO’s that do this just proves the disgusting problem we have. You take it as permission to commit wrongful acts – children do the same thing when they say “But Bobby did it too”. You have proven you are not man enough to take the high road and stop assaulting people with this childish noise.
The next time you are out riding on your obnoxious chrome toy, turn around and knock on the doors of those you just passed. Ask them how they feel about having that shit, your shit, in their homes.
It is what it is Bruno…remember, there is absolutely NOTHING that a bully LOUD Biker does relevant to philanthropy, patriotism, that could not be accomplished with the participants atop a legal, quiet, motorcycle with the US EPA factory-installed muffler affixed to that motorcycle. You’ve decided, through entitlement, to disregard the rule of law enacted for the protection of our health and welfare and our quality of life.
Bruno, in you selfishness, you’ve forgotten about that two-year-old child and her fatigued single Mom living in that poorly constructed 2nd floor apartment overlooking a very busy intersection in Anywhere, USA. You’ve forgotten the Hades the unrelenting attack on this Mom and her child every hour, every single day and night, by you and your Loud Biker Cult[ure], as well as modified auto’s and trucks, that accelerate from that intersection with those Vance Short Shots emitting approximately 110 dB(A) that is audible for up to and over one-mile. You forget or don’t take the time to consider the Hades that you and yours creates for families such as these…
Regarding you impotent excuse for childish bully behavior via philanthropy and patriotism, please see my video on this subject titled: Philanthropy or Thuggery? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dCvd-j6yMMM&t=303s
With the upmost in sincerity,
Rickey D. Holtsclaw, Houston PD/Retired
Concerned Citizens Against Loud Motorcycles – Facebook, WordPress and YouTube
Bruno, I am a psychologist, and it is clear to me that you are gay and are trying to compensate for your sexual issues with loud noise. Why don’t you get some counseling instead of riding a bike that is loud? This is the 21st century, and being homosexual is much more acceptable than it used to be, so perhaps you don’t need to act out in ways to try to prove you are straight, when you obviously are not.
@reg… I’ll admit, you got a small chuckle out of me with your reply, but that was short-lived because it’s obvious that you’re just a fool that hides behind his wit when he has nothing relevant to add. So that’s about as much time as you’re worth.
@Gh0st… I never once mentioned how wonderful I am, I simply stated the facts while you continue (desperately it seems) to try to equate our manhood with our bikes. Sorry, but the narrative lacks substance and it’s based solely on ignorance and assumption. You just sound like a whiny little bitch! I would also “bet the farm” as they say, that I could ride my bike down just about any street, then come back and knock on those doors, and get the exact opposite reaction you think I would get. Perhaps if their homes were made of notebook paper and they had the sensitive hearing of a bat, then you might have a point. You’re just the type of miserable prick that would call the police about a backyard BBQ or if someone was mowing their lawn too early on a Sunday morning if you deemed it bothersome.
@Rickey Holtsclaw… I’ll be the first to admit, philanthropy has nothing to do with my pipes or the modifications I have done to my bike. It’s just a nice side benefit that makes me feel good when I give to others (must be that selfish/entitled side of me coming out) I just found the irony funny considering the money I and many others give that benefit local FOP’s and families of fallen officers while on a lot of these benefit rides. Not to mention all the cops I personally ride with and the events I’ve attended where all the cops do nothing but admire the look and sound of the bikes. Now here I am, going back and forth with a stick-in-the-mud stuffed shirt former officer that has an obvious antagonistic, assumptive view of the “biker culture”.
By the way, I saw your Facebook page titled “CCALM”. Wow, you have a whopping 439 people liking that page. That sure speaks volumes to that ever important movement and message you’re spewing out. Speaking of “entitlement”, it seems that you love to throw around your perceived weight as a 31-year police veteran that can “substantiate facts” about those mean ol’ bully bikers. Jesus, what a blow-hard! If you have such a hard-on for the “rule of law”, how about spending that time and energy on something that actually matters?! Perhaps our lackadaisical immigration laws, where the consequences physically and financially harm our citizens. How about our pathetically weak justice system that allows real criminals back on the streets and a host of other issues that truly do “assault” Americans?! You go ahead and continue to write articles and post videos in the name of your ridiculously sad crusade. Me, I’ll continue to ride my loud bike all over the country like I have for years. Both you and your stuffy, good-for-nothing campaign will be long gone before I stop riding.
Okay Bruno, you win…enjoy!
Bruno – The day you get crushed under that bike will be a happy day across this land. I for one will be celebrating with popcorn and beer.
Gh0st… Wish I knew where you lived, cause I would make it my job to ride past your house every day of the week and twice on Sundays. Adios you crybaby bitch!!!
Bruno – Such the bully. You reek of insecurity. It really is overwhelming. Go ahead – beat you chest again and jump up and down like a gorilla with your little threats.
Gh0st – please remember the admonition of the writer in Proverbs who said, “Answer not a fool according to his folly, lest thou also be like unto him.” I have policed the mentality of Bruno for years and many of these juvenile-bullies are forever OCD with the Group Dynamic, hedonism, narcissism, selfishness, irresponsibility.
Gh0st, Bruno and his kind don’t care about anyone or anything but satiating their lust, their belly and their incessant need for attention and affirmation…much like the 3rd grader who cloths-pins playing cards in the spokes of his bicycle or much like a 7th grade hormone laden girl dressed like a whore for any semblance of attention.
Allow me to share with you the “attitude” and psychological make up of the Loud Biker Culture – please see my compilation of comments from this hedonistic/narcissistic group of bullies at: https://rickeyholtsclaw.wordpress.com/2015/09/04/loud-biker-mentality-1949-v-21st-century/
Thank you Gh0st for fighting the good fight, but understand that there are those in our society who are unreachable and cannot be reasoned with…after 31-years in law enforcement I learned that the hard way.
Rick Holtsclaw, Houston PD/Retired
Concerned Citizens Against Loud Motorcycles – Facebook, YouTube and WordPress
Gh0st… I’m the bully, but you just wrote about how you’ll celebrate my getting crushed under my bike with popcorn and beer???!!! Haha, ok bitch!
Bruno,
You have done a great job of representing the biker community by showing how rude, angry and mean-spirited you are. Of course I was joking about your sexuality, but I do think you have some issues that are obvious as you need to portray yourself as hyper-masculine. That can indicate latent homosexual tendencies. I would like to take a guess at your profile. I would surmise that you like to dress in biker regalia, you like to drink a lot of beer, have roughed up a few women that pissed you off, have done your share of cocaine, are a very patriotic Trump supporter, and you like to listen to amplified country rock music. You may have been in trouble with the law a few times. You have proudly served in the military. Your bike is a modified Harley and you are very very proud of it. Your “cager” vehicle is a large American pickup truck. You have a lower paying job with little job security, but you work hard and are considered a loyal employee.
Reg –
🙂
I’ve been a Harley rider for thirteen years now, before that I rode race bikes. I will say this, loud is fun for the rider or driver but when I see my 77 year old father holding his ears while walking his dog because an obnoxiously loud car, truck or motorcycle goes by, it upsets me. This problem isn’t exclusive to Harley Davidsons anymore! These kids with the “Sport Tuner” cars or the pickups with the noisy diesel engine exhausts are just as obnoxious, sometimes more obnoxious than a Harley. Let’s not single out one particular group and say they are the only violators of noise ordinances across the country. Let’s face it, the bikers with the loud bikes like it that way. Just like the “Sport Tuner” kids love the annoying sound out of their wide mouth muffler pipes and the diesel truck owners love spewing pollution into the air with noise and their dirty black diesel smoke. All of us can make our vehicles sound good without setting off car alarms and blowing out an old man’s ear drums. There are plenty of aftermarket exhaust systems out there that comply with federal regulations, sound great and actually improve the performance of your car, truck or motorcycle.
Fred,
This thread of discussion is about loud Harleys. It was precipitated by the article entitled: “The unbearable loudness of Harley hogs”. Therefore, it is most appropriate to single out that segment of the motorcycling community. In fact, they single themselves out with all the excessive noise they inflict on the public with their loud and illegal after market pipes.
It is illegal to customize one’s state and federally regulated motor vehicle to make it louder than originally manufactured no matter how “good” that may sound to those who commit that illicit act.
The only “great sounding” motor vehicle exhaust systems are ones that suppress exhaust noise emissions to the point where the exhaust noise emissions are barley noticeable like those originally installed by the factory.
The vast majority of after market motorcycle exhaust systems do not comply with federal regulations. They are “for use on closed courses only” and render motorcycle exhaust noise emissions much louder than they were originally manufactured to be in stark violation of federal law and most state laws. The manufactures of those after market exhaust systems readily admit to those facts and advertise the exhaust noise enhancing qualities of their products a marketing feature.
Nope. It is not fine to monkey with motorcycle noise emission control devices and “customize” their exhaust noise emissions whether one tampers with OEM exhaust systems or replaces them with non-OEM equivalent after market exhaust systems. That is illegal no matter why one wants to do it. And that illicit act is the root cause of why so many Harleys are unbearably loud and why so many people complain about “The unbearable loudness of Harley hogs”. They, and all illegally modified and excessively loud motorcycles, are in dire need of being singled out for the application of the rule of law and their exhaust noise emissions muted in compliance with it.
I’m not gonna bother to read any of the comments for this. Undoubtably, there will be a lot of people that hate your article and there will be a lot of people wanting to give you a pat on the back. I don’t feel like wasting time on all the bullshit so i’m gonna get right to the point…You are a very closed minded person who thinks he is clever with how he pushed his propaganda on the public and have no real interest in gaining any kind of understanding on the matter because of how you carefully avoided certain facts that would immediately prove you wrong and you wouldnt get to be angry about something youre not sure if you have the right to even be angry about but your entitlement issues wont let you see otherwise. You know what im talking about and i sincerely hope you read this, tho its unlikely. I’m not trying to hate on you but i do very much hate the way you, and the majority of american media, pump your bullshit off on all of us. We deserve the facts. We deserve the TRUTH! You just want people to take your side because you think youre right. I say let the truth decide, and if i’m the one who is wrong i’ll be the first one to admit it. That doesnt scare me. What does is a bunch of people who are wrong but dont know it!
The truth has been found and agreed upon. You should read the comments and the article again. It just appears the truth is in opposition to your desires and opinions.
Modified exhausts and the included removal of emissions control systems are harmful and therefore illegal for the protection of everyone.
If you feel the need to be noticed in the course of safety, use your horn. All vehicles are equipped with horns that face FORWARD! Your loud exhaust does not! If your horn is not loud enough, modify IT so that you can be noticed.
Riding a loud motorcycle or using your horn for that matter does not exclude you from using your brakes and/ or taking evasive action. Just like anyone in their “cage”.
If your motorcycle cannot idle at a stoplight without a periodic “blipping” of the throttle, tune it properly and /or raise the idle speed. You remind me of the kids back in the day that would turn down the idle and put glass packs on their otherwise stock V8 powered cars and trucks. You’re all grown up now, but you still haven’t learned. Still begging for attention. I guess someone has to do it. Better you than me.
You are still looked down upon with distaste by others and you know deep down that it is wrong.
Didn’t you get enough attention when you were a child?
Mr. Palmer,
What “propaganda”?
What “facts” do you have that would prove me and others wrong?
And what do mean by “entitlement issues”?
You say “we deserve the facts”, “We deserve the truth”. Indeed we do and we gave you the facts and the truth.
You seem to be angry about something, but you did not make it clear what you are angry about. Was it something we said? And if so, what? Was it the facts we presented and the truth behind the unbearable loudness of illegally modifed Harleys and the loud motorcycle problem in general?
The election of Trump will empower the types of people who have no concern for the rights of others, which includes the bikers who ride without legal exhaust systems.
Reg,
Reg,
I can understand why you feel that way, but I hope your prognostication does not come to pass.
People who have no concern for the rights of others and that violate the rule of law which results in those rights being infringed upon should not be empowered to violate the law with immunity and inflict harm on the public. And your right. That includes bikers who violate state and federal laws and loudly ride around without legal exhaust systems on their motorcycles.
It is the duty of the Executive branch of goverment to make sure the laws are enforced. And it is the duty of law enforcers to enforce the law. It is the rule of law that should always prevail, not the desires of those who don’t care to comply with the law and want to be given a free pass to do as they please.
Just reading this article brings to mind a child looking through a key hole and deciding he knows the shape of the world because of the view. The fact that generations of bikers can and will give testimony of times when “racking the baffles” caught someone’s attention fast and help prevent an accident, should be ignored because someone who doesn’t ride or has some inherent fear of the big dirty biker has a bigger platform to shout from. People cry about how the big bad motorcycle ruined there whole moment with all the noise….phff REALLY!!! I ride and I love it. The freedom the rush and anytime I’m struggling with day to day bs I love to ride weather permitting. It clears the head calms me down. That being said part of the attraction is the sound. Maybe loud noise frightens you that’s your problem get some help for it. Loud pipes drowns out all the other bs in my head and I have gotten help for it it’s called a Harley. Another pill ain’t what most people need, but to feel free that will fix alot of your uptight pretentious views. Especially when your lifetime of self-absorbed unhappiness gets projected on to me for the two seconds our paths may cross on the road. Do you really think that the few seconds our paths may cross you have the right to make plans for MY ride, MY equipment, MY FREEDOM! I bought and paid for the experience of riding a BEAST, part of the enjoyment. If I wanted a pussy between my knees I would have bought a Vespa. Your moment of annoyance or weekend (whatever) is my whole day of enjoyment or the fulfillment of my whole year. All this being said the Meat Heads that sit at stop lights revving their engines for no reason should be given fines, and the guy who works second shift and rides full out in second gear should have a brick thrown through their windows. Anyone who rides knows that it’s possible to ride one gear up to keep the noise down.
Disgruntled and annoyed You have issues and represent everything wrong with this country. Your fake patriotism, perverted belief of what freedom is and childish selfishness.
@ Disgruntled and annoyed: Now that is an accurate description of how others feel about your penis implant that you so dearly love to stroke…err ride.
I could go line-by-line and pick apart your statements but I don’t have that kind of time. It would be more tolerable if the rest of society only heard your Beast for two seconds, but that clearly is not the case. Think what you want, but your loud machine will not cure what ails you.
Only your last two sentences make any sense whatsoever.
You’ve got to stop with the “Harley hogs”…. I can’t take anything seriously until you do.
Disgruntled and annoyed,
There is a glaring flaw in your nonsensical justification of your desire to make noise with your loud and illegally modified motorcycle.
Loud pipes are illegal, period! That’s the law, and the law that prohibits loud pipes and the excessive and totally unnecessary noise loud pipes inflict on the public trumps your desire to violate the law and inflict that unlawful noise on the public and your silly justifications for it.
That goes for all you loud bikers out there. You can’t win that debate. You loose the moment you foolishly invoke the old LPSL canard. What is sorely needed is the strong and proactive enforcement of the muffler laws you are violating and admitting to.
Why don’t these loud Harley riders point their exhaust pipes forward if they are so concerned about saving lives?
I love how people make excuses for disrespectfully disregarding human life from their lack of ability to pay attention! And realize they’re are not the only people in the world fact is people in cars pay no attention to motorcyclists! They treat us as if we don’t have a right to be on the road and have more of a right to be there than we do! The fact is this whole argument it’s just a bunch of people whining and complaining for their blatant ignorance and also disregard for human life while they are driving!! Loud pipes have saved my life!! So go ahead and hate us!!
We don’t hate you, just your loud pipes which are unlawfully loud, illegal and don’t make you safe.
If you have a question about loud motorcycles or those who operate them…your answer is most likely within the following in-depth article written by a retired 31-year veteran of the Houston PD, see:
The Truth About Loud Motorcycles the Police Won’t or Can’t Tell You: https://rickeyholtsclaw.com/2016/03/10/the-truth-about-loud-motorcycles-the-police-wont-or-cant-tell-you/
Sincerely,
Rick Holtsclaw
Concerned Citizens Against Loud Motorcycles – Facebook
Dred, if it was only about being visible and making sure cars are aware of them, motorcycle riders wouldn’t feel compelled to rev their engine at stop lights, blast down empty residential streets, or hit full throttle in an urban canyon. No, it’s about being badass and having a cool bike. I was there once, but I grew out of it and now realize what a dick I was. You too can come to realize how self centered it is to believe it’s all about you and your freedom to have a loud bike with no regard for those around you.
The whole irresponsible drivers in cars running over innocent motorcyclist because they weren’t paying attention gets dodged!! And why?? They didn’t see or hear them! That part totally gets dodged?? I can hear it now I didn’t see him I didn’t hear him he came out of nowhere!! No the point was he had the right away you where texting or Preoccupied with your touch screen navigation or phone texting killing someone because your not paying attention!! You didn’t see or hear Them!! Maybe an accident but it’s still Murder!! A motorcyclist doesn’t have 3 tons of steel wrapped around him to protect them!! My cousin has a steel plate in his head because of somebody running a four way stop claiming they didn’t see or hear him because he had a stock Dyna Harley-Davidson with Factory silent exhaust system he is lucky to be alive and we are blessed to have him in our life still! But maybe if the bike was a little more obnoxious as you call it the accident could have been avoided! I guess you’d have to ride everyday to realize how being(( heard)) will save your a$$ I’m not condoning riding up and down someone Street revving your engine to the Moon that’s just rude! And we all know there’s rude people in this world!
So many snowflakes, go find your safe space so the rest of us can continue with our lives.
Dred: Only you Harley knuckleheads have the “problems” with people not hearing you because you rely ON them hearing you. That is not defensive riding but it IS part of your culture and attitude – Look at me and hear me roar. Learn how to ride defensively and not like the world owes you something.
Dred: Only you Harley knuckleheads have the “problems” with people not hearing you because you rely ON them hearing you. That is not defensive riding but it IS part of your culture and attitude – Look at me and hear me roar. Learn how to ride defensively and not like the world owes you something.
Do some research and learn how to ride defensively – http://www.smarter-usa.org/
M. Lindeman, my safe space is my home and I can’t even get away from the noise there. I should be able to sleep through the night with my windows open, but clearly your hobby is much more important. No one is stopping you from continuing with your life, but you jerks sure put a pause on everyone else’s everywhere you go.
M. Lindeman is calling people who rightly complian about unlawfully excessively loud and illegally equipped motorcycles “snowflakes”. He seems to have a problem with people speaking out on the issue, but calling them names and dismissing their valid complaints is not going silence them.
That reminds me of an old proverb: “Sticks and stones may break my bones but names can never harm me”.
No. Names don’t harm those who are the victims of another class of people. And that other class of people who unlawfully inflict real harm on the public have a name, too. They are called “scofflaws”. And with regard to people who ride excessively loud and illegally equipped motorcycles, that class of scofflaws is often referred to as “loud bikers”. We do use that name quite a bit and it is most appropoe
Want to throw around names? There are some names for you to contemplate.
Rather be called a “snowflake” then be a “loud biker” “scofflaw”.
Best comment is #84. I also ride electric bikes and this whole “Loud bikes saves lives” is preposterous. No one serious about motorcycle safety think that noise can help in any way. Actually, riding a silent electric motorcycle allows you to hear what’s coming close to you and helps covering your dead spots. For what’s in front of you always assume they don’t see you and drive accordingly. Check articles like https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motorcycle_safety nowhere noise is mentionned about making a motorcycle less conspicuous. Actually wearing earplugs “help protect against hearing damage, and reduce fatigue during long rides”.
Happy riding everyone.
EmpulseTT’s comment #206 is also excellent.
Indeed, there is no need to make excessivie noise when riding motorcyles. Noise does not protect riders. Riding motorcycles responsibly and being extra vigilant does.
To EmpluseTT: Happy and safe riding, and I hope you enjoy your exquisitely quiet electric motorcycle and show the loud pipes crowd that is the way to go and the wave of the future.