Why I Oppose Foxconn Deal
Rep. Brostoff on corporate extortion, suicide nets and the race to the bottom.
Foxconn chairman Terry Gou and Governor Scott Walker hold a memorandum of understanding. Photo by Jeramey Jannene.
For the $3 billion demanded by FoxConn, we can fix every pothole in the state with Wisconsin workers, reduce our public school classroom sizes by hiring hundreds of new teachers, reinvest in our University System (a $15 billion annual economic activity generator), and still have money left over! Instead, Scott Walker is working with billionaire private interests to fleece the public and demand we pay the price tag.
When approaching a venture like this, it is important to look at who we are dealing with: Scott Walker, FoxConn and Donald Trump. First we have Walker, a politician whose credibility on jobs is seriously lacking. Remember this is the same guy who lied about creating 250,000 jobs in his first term and created that hotbed of corruption and failed promises, the Wisconsin Economic Development Corporation (WEDC). Strike one. Then we have FoxConn, the same company that lied about the factory they were going to set up in Harrisburg, Pennsylvania, and had to set up suicide nets at its Shenzhen factory because people were literally jumping out of their windows. Strike two. Finally we have Trump, who is personally taking credit for single-handedly making this happen. I can think of no politician in American History who has lied more about everything and anything. Strike three. So we are asking Wisconsinites to put their trust and billions of tax dollars into a deal with these three untrustworthy entities at the helm?
Instead of wrestling with the proportion of the extortion, why not cut out the graft and just hire Wisconsin workers directly? If we’re serious about tech investments, we have a nationally renowned university system that would be a much better investment. Over the years we’ve let ourselves accept this “race to the bottom” where we have to bribe mercenary companies to lure them to our cities with big dollars. These are huge companies with no loyalty to the places they’re coming to; their loyalty is only to the payoff money they demand. They bribe and threaten politicians with campaign dollars, an army of highly paid professional lobbyists and public relations firms. Cowardly politicians sellout their communities, often leaving them with the bill regardless of whatever promises end up getting fulfilled, and usually at a higher cost than initially proposed. The extortion continues and the process repeats. This a terribly inefficient use of resources. Tons of money should not be going to subsidize jobs through corporate welfare, especially when these jobs may well be lost to automation in a few years or moved because of a bigger payoff from somewhere else. I’m in favor of economic development and I’m against crony capitalism. A better use of our resources for economic development would be to invest in small businesses already invested in our state and here for the long haul. Not some company that wants to suck as much of our resources as possible then leave us as quickly as they came.
Even if you still support this, don’t get it twisted – it’s like the middle-class dad spending his mortgage at the casino for a moonshot hope that he can pay for his kids’ college tuition with a wink, some optimism, and a lot of luck at the craps table. Instead, we need to make sound, fiscally responsible decisions. Leave the casino, spend less than we make and get a good night’s rest, because there is more than enough work to do in the morning. Another path is possible if we’re willing to do the courageous thing and take a stand. If we are willing to spend billions of taxpayer dollars then let’s employ Wisconsin workers, fix every pothole in our state, hire community connectors and park staff, invest in renewable energy infrastructure, fully fund our world class university system, hire teachers for our schools, and invest in the success of small businesses across our state. We don’t have to say yes to this shiny, headline grabbing proposal. Let’s be deliberate, create a plan that actually works for Wisconsin, and build long-term infrastructure that is in all of our best interests. Trump has perfected the art of the steal and it’s up to us to stand up and keep it real; real jobs that will build our economic stability and real investment where it’s needed.
Rep. Jonathan Brostoff represents the 19th Assembly District in the city of Milwaukee.
Op-Ed
-
Unlocking Milwaukee’s Potential Through Smart Zoning Reform
Jul 5th, 2024 by Ariam Kesete
-
We Energies’ Natural Gas Plans Are A Mistake
Jun 28th, 2024 by John Imes
-
Milwaukee Needs New Kind of School Board
Jun 26th, 2024 by Jordan Morales
Wow, that offered nothing. To sum up Mr. Brostoff’s feelings, I’m partisan, I don’t like the people who made this deal so I do not like the deal. Let’s hire people to fill pot holes instead. Mr. Brostoff displays the kind of forward thinking we would expect from someone who got his seat running against a member of the Pirate Party.
Bman’s comment is what you find in the dictionary under “Projection.” There are plenty of sound reasons that Rep. Brostoff gave, you just chose to ignore than and whine like the GOP you are.
And by the way, filling potholes is a much better use of tax dollars than giving billions in cash to a corporation who can’t be counted on to ever create jobs, let alone keep them within 10 years of any “plant” opening.
I must have missed the part where the state writes them a check for 3 billion. You know that’s not how it works right? Since you are making assumptions about me, GOP…nope. Far from it. I’ll make a few about you. You are either willfully ignorant or you spend all your time regurgitating talking points that you do not fully understand. I get it though, when you comment 3-4 times on every article on the site it’s probably hard to keep coming up with original thoughts.
City of Milwaukee throws money at corporations almost on a monthly basis so, what is the difference.with The Coulture being the greatest example of this but please see, Amtrak, Greyhound, ASQ building, Boston Store, NML Building, ManPower., Milwaukk Bucks, Milwaukee Brewers, Marquette University and the Trolley to name a few. Kudos to Tom Barrett and Chris Abele the last of the Mohicans. (Jobs friendly Democrats)
Actually Bman, they ARE writing Fox-con a check. Because Walker and WISGOP have already reduced taxes on manufacturers near zero (how well has THAT worked out for us, by the way?). So to give away $2.85 billion to Fox-con, they are writing a check so Fox-con has NEGATIVE income tax.
Your projection is hilarious to us outside of Bubble World.
The name of the company alone should give us pause…..Fox…..Connnnnn
We are so upside down in this country they can now proclaim “made in america” means giving $3B to a foreign company headquarterd in Taiwan. The Asian Century looks more real every day. Wonder if it will take down the world’s greatest democracy with it.
Troll supports the government picking winners and losers. Grover Norquist says you are a traitor.
I can hardly take the opinion on this matter seriously from someone who has never worked for an employer that actually generated economic activity. Non profits and working for government are necessary and can provide good for the community, but the economy doesn’t run on government and non-profits. Only someone who’s budget is granted to them see’s things like filling pot holes as somehow equivalent to investing in an entire new industry.
Is it willful blindness or refusal to accept the idea that it isn’t just the Foxconn jobs but also all the suppliers who would likely move (such as Corning), the indirect jobs, the construction jobs, the fact that the plants will start out highly automated to begin with (thus probably negating this idea that automation will eventually replace these workers) and more. This would make WI a draw for the new age of manufacturing. The kind that makes manufacting in the US viable again.
Foxconn has a shaky record on promises, so I’m not getting my hopes up… but imagining all the effects of this project if it comes to fruition is truly exciting and would very much be worth all the incentives.
Rep Brostoff. Your opinion is valued. Thank you. Would you please outline how you would create jobs in the next 3 years? Interested in your plan.
Because of nearsighted elected politicians like Jonathan Brostoff this is why Milwaukee continues to decline. This clown couldn’t see the forest for the trees. Ramble on in your childish rants against Scott Walker and Donald Trump and then offer an idiotic idea about investing money in small businesses who may hire a handful of people but not pay them a family supporting wage rather than bringing in FoxConn who will offer family supporting wages and also attract additional large corporations that offer jobs with family supporting wages.
Dems sour grapes!!!
Under the Left Kimberly Clark others companies left for Texas cause of the stupid Left’s actions.
Stupid Aldermen were against Wal Mart on west side of Milwaukee so they went elsewhere when the SE Wis desperately needs jobs.
We have lots of workers that need training in SE Wisconsin, we must put them to work.
Foxconn can lure dozens of companies up from Illinois, who is going broke. That is happening right now. They can be the emphasis to make SE Wisconsin, the new Tech center of the Midwest, so Lefty losers: “Suck lemons” and take a dump.
Let’s assume FoxConn creates the 13,000 and as such gets $3,000,000,000 from the State. That’s a cost of $230,000 per job. Assuming these jobs average the $53,000 in wages that the company is promising it will take somewhere between 45 and 50 years to generate enough income tax from these workers to pay back the subsidy. Is that a great investment for the State to make? Could that money be better spent? Why do certain businesses get these subsidies while so many others have to struggle to make ends meet or struggle to get the capital to expand?
Certainly the scope of this deal dwarfs much of the corporate welfare that is out there. We see coffee shops and tiki bars get government loans to expand or start their business and these are places that aren’t exactly creating great jobs. We see certain industries get tax breaks that the majority of other businesses don’t see. This money has to come from somewhere.
One of the hardest things about running a business is accessing the capital to expand. It’s sort of a chicken or the egg thing. You need more people in the business to expand, but you don’t have the money to float someone’s pay for a period of time in order to expand. So it gets frustrating to see companies that don’t need this kind of subsidy get one.
Along with the money. let us not forget the legislature will waive environmental rules allowing this Chinese company to pollute our air and waterways. If possible they will also try and give concessions for worker safety, wages, and benefits. Wisconsin is racing to the bottom.
WCD don’t you oppose the Bucks deal because of the taxpayer money the owners got? Yet you support $3 billion for Foxconn? Rich Bucks owners are bad guys but Chinese corporation with $135 billion in annual revenue is fine? Government picking winners and losers is conservative to you?
WE opposed the Bucks deal cause it do little of anything for anyone.
The Lefty lemon suckers on this page completely ignores all the jobs that will be created in SE Wisconsin in ancillary things like hardware, drug stores, home building etc, and those that service the Foxconn plant, electric, gas, and those that supply them with parts ,and the insurance agencies, medicall facilities, and the other companies that are moving in from Illinois right now, to get away from the loony left types that appear on this site daily in Ill.ualy. Suck sour grapes and lemons losers.
Losers, list me the regs that are being ignored and the changes in rules that will be made?
Suck lemons Losers! Walker will be elected for the next 20 years.
And why put in Racine county where unemployment is already low? Many of those jobs, if they come to pass, will be filled by workers commuting from IL. If an investment like is is to be made, at least put it in Milwaukee where it is needed.
With this level of “investment” in FoxConn by us, the taxpayers of Wisconsin, which is everyone who buys anything in Wisconsin, what ROI will we enjoy? With our ownership role, will we all get an annual dividend check? Or, do we the taxpayers take all the risk, but have no legal right to any tangible reward? Will FoxConn suddenly start paying livable wages, which it doesn’t anywhere else, an important question since livable wages are a form of ROI, which should drive up wages generally in an otherwise low wage state like Wisconsin? How many current Wisconsin businesses will demand similar public investment and threaten to leave without an equally generous deal? With this level of investment by the state and risk taking by taxpayers, is the Govenor agreeing to public ownership and a controlling role in other businesses, say utility companies? At the miniumum, there ought to be a lengthy informed discussion and debate about the precedent being established here. It really does turn capitalism on it head, when the Govenor prescribes this kind of deal for a private enterprise, that in effect, makes it a public enterprise.
Oh the Bucks deal and all the surrounding development does nothing for anyone. No new businesses. No ancillary jobs.
An elderly man typing “Suck sour grapes and lemons losers” on his computer with no sense of irony whatsoever just brings me endless joy. Old people need computer monitoring as much as children do.
This is not good and won’t end well.
“The bill lawmakers will consider as early as Tuesday allows the company to move or change the course of streams, build man-made bodies of water that connect with natural waterways and discharge materials in state wetlands without authorization from the state Department of Natural Resources. It exempts the company from being subject to an environmental impact statement.”
I was just reading someone’s perspective on that which had more to do with the fact that most of Racine and Kenosha counties are former wetlands which means any excavation or moving a ditch or whatever requires permits that take 2 years to get. It can’t/doesn’t remove environmental oversight.
In addition, politicians have said they don’t want to skip the environmental impact statement because they want to avoid lawsuits from people trying to stop the project. So expect to see an EI statement.
Sorry but you are more hopeful than I am AG. Considering what they have done to the DNR and their beliefs (or lack thereof) on climate change I see no reason to trust that state Republicans have any interest in protecting the environment especially in their zeal to land Foxconn.
On that note, do you get the impression that state lawmakers are negotiating with Foxconn or just making sure they do whatever Foxconn wants? It certainly seems to be the latter.
If this project actually does get built, when the world changes in 20 years and the massive plant is obsolete, guess who gets stuck cleaning up the superfund site known as Racine County.
The government should not be in the business of picking winners and losers. Especially when the winner in this case is a foreign multinational company. Our local small businesses have to play by the rules, but the big dogs, the ones who can easily afford to play by the rules, spend their money on lobbyists and bribing politicians with campaign contributions. The GOP are no longer conservatives in anyway shape or form of the definitiion and DEM’s would do well to point out this hypocrisy come the next election.
Scott Walker was head of his WEDC when it gave a half a million dollars to a crooked River Hills business man so he could pay off his luxury car loans.Walker is in way over his ears in this negotiation. Any and all profits from Foxconn itself will flow directly to a Chinese company. The claimed 51,000 average wage is just that-an average or mean wage. The median or most common wage, when excluding the compensation of the big shots at the top will be far less. Foxconn has never paid any worker on its plant floor 51000 dollars. Most troubling of all, the type of manufacturing to be done at this plant, if it is ever built, is heavily fresh water dependent. The residual water discharged back into Lake Michigan will be contaminated with heavy metals. Your grandchildren will not only be economically worse off because of this politically motivated give away, but they will be drinking water that has been poisoned in the name of corporate profits for a foreign corporation.
Daniel Golden, can you cite any sources that show that any water discharged from this plant would be contaminated with heavy metals? I’ve seen statements that all wastewater would be properly treated before being returned, so if you have proof otherwise I would definitely be interested in seeing it.
Since this Foxcomm deal has become news the sight of GOP politicians falling over one another to grab this opportunity has sickened me. So, this morning’s op ed piece brings some relief that somebody sees the other side.
WI cannot afford to be so short-sighted with its natural resources it will sell them off for flat-screens!
Hummm First it seems that we need a set of FACTS as to what is happening. What one would find in a Environmental Impact Statement. Yes they do not want to write it BUT that does not mean that a group like the folks who meet monthly or was it weekly figure out how to file the gerrymandering lawsuit. The area where the plant is to be located is real Let’s look at that. The water just mentioned is very important and getting folks in Chicago and other Lake Michigan Communities to file suit immediately will surely slow things down. Then there is the 3 BILLION or is it 10 Billion for is it 3,000 or 13,000 jobs? How much a job That is a sobering number if my math is right. Then what is the BILLIONS going for? So far no sales tax on the building parts so that is not really a loss as no building no tax revenue But what of the other cost. Who will put the group together to determine what is true and then to publish it. Peace Tom Spellman
PS I worked on the West Sides response to the Park West Environmental Impact Statement now 40 years ago and this is not much different from that.
AG, can you cite any sources that say it wont? The bill in circulation now (here, if you haven’t seen it: https://bloximages.chicago2.vip.townnews.com/host.madison.com/content/tncms/assets/v3/editorial/4/6a/46a7c5c2-b4b7-5458-913c-8b1799d488e4/597c0c03c5e8f.pdf.pdf) specifically exempts this project from an EIA, which is typically the point at which all the things regarding the new use for a site are checked. Sure, if a river turns brown or lime green in 2023 after they think no one is looking anymore, then, yes, there are laws to deal with that, but that doesn’t make not doing the correct thing now okay.
The wetlands thing is a bit different. I can’t explain why it takes “two years” to get a permit to turn a shovel anywhere in those counties — there’s likely quite a bit of projection of one isolated case onto the whole involved there. The bill does actually up the acreage swap (from 1.2 to 2) in required wetlands restoration work, but also let’s credits be paid into a bank of some kind. Sounds great on the surface, but where do payments into that “bank” go…any specialized fund currently administered by today’s state government is at risk for stealing for more roads or other budget holes.
Thanks Rich! That link was convenient, I had been meaning to track that down.
I’m not totally up to speed on the full issue with the EIS because they said they were going to submit them anyway for the actual projects because they wanted to avoid lawsuits. If that’s the case, why’d they include the exemption… unless it’s just for the legislation EIS and the projects/buildings themselves would have an EIS done? I’m not sure on that part.
Either way, it wouldnt’ excuse them from environmental laws though. So for people who say they’re just going to polute our waterways, there’s no evidence of that, just unsubstantiated fears.
I like how the Trump conservative rip on Brostoff for being on government when Ryan and Walker have been sucking on the public teat for decades.
Two points proven:
1) major projection with hypocrisy
2) right wingers will take any terrible deal if it means giving our tax dollars in entitlement to a corporation.
The company can build man-made bodies of water that connect with natural waterways. That fact (along with others mentioned elsewhere) hardly means people worried about polluted waterways are fearmongering.
The DNR’s track record when it comes to protecting the state’s water is not good: http://www.jsonline.com/story/news/local/wisconsin/2017/03/14/lawmakers-grill-wisconsin-dnr-chief-over-critical-audit/99176072/
Jake, if you’re referring to my comments about Brostoff… then you’re very much off base with me being a “Trump conservative.”
Vincent, if you can cite some source to back up Daniel’s claim that illegal heavy metals will be discharged into our waterways I’d be very interested to see it. I’d stand right along side those opposing the project if illegal pollution is somehow allowed for this project.
I’m not sure why you’re misinterpreting my comments AG. I said it is reasonable to fear that waterways could be polluted. I said nothing about illegal pollution being a certainty. I assume you realize those aren’t one and the same.
So Vincent, do you suggest we create no new businesses until the state can fix 100% of it’s regulatory problems? Falling behind on enforcement isn’t giving farms and companies free reign to pollute as is being suggested here.
Yes, I realize they are not the same… it was Daniel who made that claim and you’re backing him up. Going back to comment #25, Daniel claims this plant will discharge heavy metals into our waterways. If that is the case, I’d be very concerned… but no one is showing me that this will be the case, as opposed to statements from the company and politicians that the water would be treated. I’m opening the door here for someone to get me on the side of opposing the project, because I don’t want heavy metals like some LCD plants can create, to be released into our waterways. No one is giving me any proof otherwise though.
I am seriously worried about your reading comprehension skills AG. I didn’t say anything at all about Daniel’s claim. Once again, I said there are legitimate reasons to be concerned that waterways could be polluted based on things like our toothless DNR and the legislation being written to bend over backwards for Foxconn.
Oh well if the company and politicians say it (and of course you never ever question the word of elected officials from either party)…….
Read the thread again… my comments were regarding Daniels claim of heavy metals. You responded to comment about his claim… If you can’t support his claim fine.
I don’t trust them, I’m saying what was stated and I’m wondering if anyone has evidence to the contrary. I’m not even arguing against the point… Not sure why this has to be so contentious.
I did. Twice just to make be certain. I never commented on nor referenced Daniel’s claim or his post. You have a habit of putting word’s in my mouth and I’d appreciate it if you’d cease doing that.
If Daniel or anyone has sources or a reason to think there would be heavy metals or illegal contaminants allowed in the discharge water I’d love to hear it. Clearly no one has had an answer to this so far… which leads me to think this is just partisan opposition trying to bring up doomsday scenarios. I am open to being shown otherwise.
If all you will accept is concrete proof that waterways will be intentionally and illegally polluted you aren’t really keeping an open mind here.
The Left is going nuts these day. actually it is part of the Russian plot to elect Trump.
None of they crap is true and has not even been put together and laid out yet.
This factory and the businesses, people it brings will redo SE Wisconsin and provide jobs in various businesses fro our unemployed and untrained just as Amazon is doing.
But the left is so sour grapes, that is why they have been thrown out everywhere in US, elected Trump and will never win in Wis with their nutty platform. if not for Walker we would be Illinois.
AG: China is currently going after this same Foxconn for discharging vast amounts of heavy metals into Chinese waters. Google” Foxconn and pollution” and you will find numerous cites from the Wall Street Journal and elsewhere. Why are they not expanding their operation in China, where they can pay much less as a average wage? Besides being investigated for child labor law violations, unsafe wording conditions, and paying wages even beneath China’s low standards, Foxconn has been discharging waste water with heavy metals into the rivers of Kunshan Province. Apple initially denied the claims, but has since acknowledged problems with Foxconn as a supplier. So, AG, if the Wall Street Journal, Bloomberg, and Apple’s own admissions are not credible, then perhaps responding to you is like singing to a rock.
If the state loosens or eliminates environmental regulations for Foxconn, and if the DNR already can’t keep up with their workload, intentional and illegal water pollution isn’t guaranteed, but one should be able to understand why others are concerned about the possibility.
AG: Besides being investigated for child labor law violations, unsafe working conditions, and paying beneath even China’s low wage rates. Foxconn is accused by the Chinese government of discharging waste water with heavy metals into the rivers of Kunshan Province. The Wall Street Journal describes the company as “the infamous gadget manufacturer” Foxconn. A company does not get called “infamous” because they are good corporate citizens. Why would the corporation be so concerned about being legally absolved from Wisconsin’s environmental regulations if they intended to be good corporate citizens? Would it not be prudent for a Governor who was concerned about the protection of the precious water of Lake Michigan for future generations to be doubly cautious with a company that has a bad track record, even in the notoriously business friendly country of China? Apple has now acknowledged problems with the pollution problems of Foxconn. So AG, it does not take a great deal of research to realize Foxconn feels it has found a easier target than China to exploit for profits to take back to Taiwan.
Do we have copies of these reports Let’s post them here so it is not rumor BUT fact Maybe this will be the first facility that will recycle the heavy metals out and reuse the water. If we confront them with these facts we will not look like the folks that are refusing to accept a good deal That is what is being offered and it is up to us to point out its flaws with a well written report. Peace Tom Spellman
Here’s the bills text http://www.wispolitics.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/07/170728FoxconnBillDraft.pdf
It pleases me to no end when a Rep like Brostoff publishes this sort of old-think ‘economic development plan.’ If you look it over point by point, approximately 75% of it consists of paying higher salaries and benefits to public employees and hiring more of them. The other 25% is vague statements devoid of details, such as “invest in the success of small businesses across our state.”
OK, if that’s really your plan… we’ll leave it up to the good people of Wisconsin to decide which direction we wish to go. I happen to think 8K displays used in state-of-the-art next-gen medical and consumer electronics made in Wisconsin sounds pretty good.
These are legitimate concerns to raise. A lot more research is needed before Wisconsin bets the ranch (and Lake Michigan) on this proposal. And that’s all it is now, a proposal, with no written and defined legal obligations on the part of the company that can be examined by the public, unless I am mistaken.
BTW, it’s not very constructive to see the same commentators abuse each other on this site. why don’t they just get together and leave the rest of us out?
I agree with Kathleen that legitimate concerns have been raised re environmental impact and financial risk taking. Anecdotally, it seems to me that there is rather frequent flooding in the area under consideration by Fox-Conn. That could add to adverse environmental impacts. Could that factor in the rush to skip customary environmental studies in order to move this enormous project on a fast track? I am reminded of telephone sales techniques wherein the person being called is told that he or she has to buy today to get the good price. I think we should slow down,study the details of the Fox-Conn proposal in open, public forums; moreover, we need more credible promoters than Trump and Walker on board before we sign off on this “game changer” that could stack the game against the people and the planet if it turns out that there are more devils than angels in the details.
I read yesterday that the State is going to PAY Foxconn. That Walker and Company are going to PAY them for ??????? Hummmm How much CASH is going and how much in wages are going to be paid?? Public jobs as in the 1930’s depression are bad BUT giving a corporation cash is OK!! Hummmmm
Rep. Brostoff offers no solution for the 21st century. This is NOT the 1950s anymore and to add more people on the public payrolls is a pathway to the deficit problems of Illinois – where government pensions are underfunded by almost $200 Billion.
Sorry Rep. Brostoff but “shovel-ready projects” like fixing potholes is not a career path – especially in the 21st century.
Wisconsin needs to get this state-of-the-art Manufacturer as it will attract other real businesses. Look at Rockwell Automation – already announcing they have plans to work with them. Look at Corning who is looking at a $1 Billion investment in Wisconsin who would be a partner on some initiatives with Foxconn. That is all additional economic development.
Once you broaden the tax base, taxes will actually get lower for the average citizen and all government jobs will be well-funded from a strong tax base. Go the opposite way and add more people onto government jobs with no tax base supporting them and you will have what Illinois has. Deficit budgets and taxpayers moving out of the state. Who is left to pay the bills???
More people have to start getting up with what is needed to compete in the 21st century and not cling to “Leave it to Beaver” solutions that may have worked in the 1950s but are antiquated in today’s global marketplace.
As to giving money (actually giving tax breaks and other incentives) that is the name of the game today. You cannot get a big box store like Costco or WalMart or Lowe’s to come in unless you are cutting them some deals – and that is for retail jobs – not real jobs.
If you don’t think Tax deals and other incentives aren’t part of the process, look at Chicago and all the tax deals they have given companies like Boeing to locate their HQs there.
Sorry, but that is the name of the game and the Dems do just as much, if not more, in trying to entice companies to their municipalities and states.
AG writes: if there’s any reason “to think there would be heavy metals or illegal contaminants allowed in the discharge water I’d love to hear it.” Well, that’s the point of environmental permitting that would be drastically scaled back. I guess you could let Foxconn build the plant and then — if the DNR actually had the resources and will to do its mandated job — we would find out after the fact, after it was too late. But in general this is a possibility. One which I mentioned in my own op ed here at Urban Milwaukee on the project. Quoting from a 1997 report by the World Bank on electronics industry discharges:
“Effluents from the manufacture of semiconductors may have a low pH from hydrofluoric, hydrochloric and sulfuric acids (the major contributor to low pH), and may contain organic solvents, phosphorous oxychloride (which decomposes in water to form phosphoric and hydrochloric acids), acetate, metals, and fluorides. Effluents from the manufacture of printed circuit boards may contain: organic solvents, vinyl polymers, stannic oxide, metals such as copper, nickel, iron, chromium, tin, lead, palladium and gold, cyanides (some metals may be complexed with chelating agents), sulfates, fluorides and fluoborates, ammonia, and acids. Effluents from printed wiring assemblies may contain: acids, alkalis, fluxes, metals, and organic solvents, and, where electroplating is included, metals, fluorides, cyanides, and sulfates.”
And there is an equally long list of pollutants that can be discharged into the air — which might enter nearby waterways, or your lungs directly. Unsure why you don’t think it necessary to review a Foxconn plan to deal with all this before they become the mile-square sized GOP elephant in the room, but I suspect many Wisconsin residents in the vicinity of that plant would like to know.
It’s ironic that JC talks about getting with the times and adjusting to the 21st century and a global marketplace. How many automated jobs does Foxconn have now JC? Do you honestly think they won’t keep adding automated jobs in the future? You don’t think that could happen here?
Speaking of Boeing, Washington gave them something like $8 billion in incentives only to see the company slash thousands of jobs. Boeing is a cautionary tale.
Your attempt at giving people a reality check is a little misguided JC.
Hopefully, the legislature will have a debate like that going on here … absent the guy who offerred nothing but glib nonsense about “liberals”. Some argued this is the way things are now done in the 21st century, a point that’s obviously true, others argued for caution, concerned about the environmental impact, level of direct cash investment by taxpayers absent any protection for taxpayers. Interestingly, the manufacturing power houses of Germany, Japan, and South Korea have both, strong manufacturing bases and strong environmental laws and enforcement. The Foxconn deal smacks of the old Chinese ways of doing things quite a few years back now, no thought given to the environmental, and abysmal consideration of employees. The deal as presented as presented is the old China way, but things are rapidly changing there, concerns for the environment and employee wages/treatment rising rapidly. The fear is without some serious negotiation here, Wisconsin is at risk for the old style Chinese practices.
JC Whoever that is I do like names. I would assume by now that the folks that read and comment have at least thought about the concept of a JOB. Yes the current system of work is not going to be sustainable. Some countries are starting to provide Basic Income Guarantee BIG Chasing jobs is not where it is going to be that is unless there is a drastic change in the concept of labor ie we will all do more manual labor ie sweat. We no longer have to vacuum the carpets for starters and the hours my mother cleaned the house on a weekly basis.
Thank You Bonehead Left, happy to see you cut your own throats.
We will go after the SE Wisconsin legislative, with a business/jobs cannon next year, and will win overwhelmingly as theLeft opposes jobs while worrying about who should use the bathroom.
Foxconn deal is the most important thing to happen to us since the Left drove out Kimberly Clark years ago.
Dopey Left wants to keep the Inner city Hispanics, African Americans in bondage so they vote for the Inept, white, male, racist, liberals that control the cities.
Only theLeft will be so stupid.
Foxconn along with the three giant Amazon plants will allow many Inner city people to be trained, employed, off food stamps, welfare, so they can buy cars, raise families, buy a house, and become part of the economy.
The people, companies in NE Illinois are bailing out as fast as they can to get away from the Nutty left, in Illinois.
They will come up here, and other new companies that will be spawned, housing, build, cars bought, smiles for families. Ag great deal fro Wisconsin, Thank You Donald and Scott and the left go suck Lemons no one needs you nay more.
Vincent Hanna
Automated jobs?? Come on!?
Have you ever been in a state-of-the-art facility?? We’re not talking about opening up a Henry Ford-era Assembly line with 1000s of people in year one and then putting in robots year two.
They have not even built the plant yet and when they do, robots will be in it from the start, no doubt.
You still need technicians, engineers and other PEOPLE to run the entire operation. Skilled positions.
Like I said, too many people are still living in “Leave it to Beaver” mindsets. State-of-the-art facilities – even US plants like GM and Ford – have many robots doing routine operations. They still need people to manage them.
If they are projecting 3,000 jobs, those jobs are NOT industrial-age factory jobs. For a new facility, that makes no sense (thinking it will all be manual labor and then, robots are put in in two years)
I would admit, if you think you are going to get into a job there, you may need more than a HS diploma. Tech skills or at least be trainable is what will be needed.
Your attempt at giving people a reality check is totally misguided. They don’t build factories (with no robots) like that anymore.
Thomas Spellman – I do not follow your comment at all?? Are you suggesting everyone gets Income guaranteed?? For what? That’s too Socialist for me.
Thank You Bonehead Left, happy to see you cut your own throats.
We will go after the SE Wisconsin legislative, with a business/jobs cannon next year, and will win overwhelmingly as theLeft opposes jobs while worrying about who should use the bathroom.
Foxconn deal is the most important thing to happen to us since the Left drove out Kimberly Clark years ago.
Dopey Left wants to keep the Inner city Hispanics, African Americans in bondage so they vote for the Inept, white, male, racist, liberals that control the cities.
Only theLeft will be so stupid.
Foxconn along with the three giant Amazon plants will allow many Inner city people to be trained, employed, off food stamps, welfare, so they can buy cars, raise families, buy a house, and become part of the economy.
The people, companies in NE Illinois are bailing out as fast as they can to get away from the Nutty left, in Illinois.
They will come up here, and other new companies that will be spawned, housing, build, cars bought, smiles for families. A great deal for Wisconsin, Thank You Donald and Scott, and the left can go suck Lemons.
No one needs you any more.
“You still need technicians, engineers and other PEOPLE to run the entire operation. Skilled positions.”
Sure you do, but not 3,000 of them. Most of those jobs will be hourly, $10-$12.
With robots performing so much work in state-of-the-art facilities now (which is only going to increase) I don’t understand why you are buying what Foxconn and politicians are selling.
VINCE HANNA
Where do you get your facts?? Not personal assumptions – facts.
How do you know most jobs will pay $10-$12 an hour? Did they announce that somewhere? I must have missed it.
All I saw was that the average salary was going to be around $54,000 a year. That is a lot more than $10-$12 an hour.
Do you have the blueprints of the plant? Do you have the organization chart with all positions and their salary grades on them? If not, where are you coming up with YOUR numbers?
I’m not buying anything except what I see. Have you seen the organization chart and projected payroll? If not, you are just making personal assumptions and pulling numbers out of the air – if not somewhere else.
The trouble with some of you is that you have all these preconceived notions about any attempt to bring Wisconsin into a better economic climate. Let’s see how things unfold and when there is a real issue – question it.
The only thing I see that I would be concerned about at this point is the use of water and its recycling.
They should insure that they have the recycling ability for water built into the plant and its facilities. That is not asking for the impossible, and if the deal is set-up right, that would be the perfect place to give incentives to make sure any water that gets passed back into the environment get filtered.
JC you bash me for preconceived notions but you are buying everything the company and state elected officials have said so far. You don’t think they have any reason to inflate numbers? You say all you’re buying is what you see but there is nothing whatsoever to see at this point, not even a location. It’s just the numbers Foxconn, Trump, and Walker are sharing. Those numbers are worth nothing. Ask Pennsylvania how they feel about Foxconn.
Also, simmer down. You are practically hyperventilating and you come across like a condescending dick.
Also, regarding the number of hourly jobs:
“Plant workers are expected to earn an average of $73,500 in total compensation, including an average base wage of $53,875. Since that figure is an average and not a median amount, it could be significantly affected by a few workers making very high salaries.
Assembly Speaker Robin Vos has said most entry-level jobs would pay about $13 to $15 per hour and up.
The majority of the 13,000 workers would be hourly operators and technicians — about 9,800 of them.”
http://host.madison.com/wsj/news/local/govt-and-politics/analysis-foxconn-project-would-create-k-jobs-in-wisconsin/article_e15284f2-93dc-5797-8675-6acfc6b2a1fa.html
Vincent Hanna
Thanks for looking up the link that proves your above comment totally WRONG –
@ 61. — “Sure you do, but not 3,000 of them. Most of those jobs will be hourly, $10-$12.”
So you were wrong in the assumption of payroll. Thanks for proving my comment right.
A base wage of 453,875 is a lot closer to what I commented on –
@ 62. — “the average salary is going to be around $54,000a year.”
Who is condescending? I’m trying to be objective, you’re trying to spin things and point to things that just aren’t there.
Simmer down? People like you don’t intimidate me. You proved yourself wrong.. Hopefully, you give everything some time before you jump to a conclusion.
If this doesn’t happen< I will be the first one criticizing it. As for now, let's see this thing play out.
I was off by a whole dollar! Do you think $13-$15 an hour is anything to brag about? Those aren’t exactly great wages. And I was right in that the majority of the jobs will be the hourly jobs, not the $53,000 a year jobs. “Since that figure is an average and not a median amount, it could be significantly affected by a few workers making very high salaries.”
I am not trying to intimidate you and you are being aggressively dickish and hypocritical here for some reason. Again, you bash me for preconceived notions but you are buying everything the company and state elected officials have said so far. You don’t think they have any reason to inflate numbers? You say all you’re buying is what you see but there is nothing whatsoever to see at this point, not even a location. It’s just the numbers Foxconn, Trump, and Walker are sharing. Those numbers are worth nothing. Ask Pennsylvania how they feel about Foxconn.
Indeed let’s see how it plays out. Hopefully you do some critical thinking and stop taking as gospel numbers that come from the company itself, Trump, and Walker.
VINCENT HANNA
You must have been a student of new math or “good enough to be close math”? You said you “were off by a whole dollar”??
You said $10-$12 an hour. The proposed range is $13-$15. That’s a $3 difference – NOT $1. What else are you mathematically challenged on?
Funny how some people will try to bend the truth to make things look worse than what they are when they have some political agenda pushing them.
If 6 states were vying for this facility, that means ALL of them wanted the jobs to come to them – including Illinois.
From the article you linked to_
“Foxconn also considered sites in Michigan, Illinois, Indiana, Ohio, Pennsylvania and Texas.”
If this was such a phony deal or a totally deceptive deal would all those other states want to even venture an invitation to build in their region?? Believe me, those states wanted this development.
Get off the lame partisan rant and be happy Wisconsin landed something that could prove to be very valuable to your tax base.
It’s not just the job created at Foxconn, it’s the jobs at Rockwell Automation as well and Corning – if they come with another $1 Billion in facilities development – the jobs they will create as well.. Then, you must add onto that all the jobs created from companies those workers will support with purchases.(groceries, cars, clothes, etc)
You should be hoping that everything works out instead of throwing cold water on it. It looks like Wisconsin is getting some good momentum – Momentum attracts more development.
What’s the alternative? Tell us your Master Plan? Hire a bunch of people to fill potholes? Is that a career? Hire more teachers and government workers? Have to have the tax base first to support that. You want deficit spending and bloated budgets move down to Illinois, you’ll be happier. Especially paying 10% sales tax and a penny an ounce extra on your soft drinks.
You complain that the jobs are not all $75,000 jobs or even $54,000 jobs. The fact is, it’s all NEW jobs.
What do you suggest? Opening up a new Starbucks? Maybe a Home Depot? All those jobs will come as well later, if the prime development gets developed.
Until they come out with all the details, which they have not yet, why not be happy Wisconsin is actively trying to grow the tax base?
In the meantime, get some math skills.
http://www.adaptedmind.com/Math-Worksheets.html?gclid=CjwKCAjw8IXMBRB8EiwAg9fgMGzrA9FCTto7eJQ9GhdlKZx0DOJvVm-dgL8nWDP_LLm5G2nMNbw0iRoCn4kQAvD_BwE
To so called “Conservative Digest”
Please knock off the grossly disrespectful name calling, among other things, and in the process, giving the word “conservative” a terrible connotation, seemingly hijacked by yet another playground bully.
This has been a learning dialogue with opinions for the most part well argued on either side. Exactly what should be occurring on public matters.
I’ve heard, and I believe most Americans, have heard enough of bullies, foul language, and character assassination the past 12 months to last a life time.
This is what “Conservative” had to day: “Thank You Bonehead Left, happy to see you cut your own throats.”
WCD,
Please devote some thought to what Max said to you in post # 68.
“foxy-conned” has a nice ring to it and may provide years of quips and pro’ly thousands of jobs for Illinoisans.
Left is cutting their own throats. Trump/scott election proved that people want jobs, so they can get homes, cars, raise families not get more food stamps, drugs.
Your stance here guarantees that you are going to get creamed again, lose seats and lose the governorship.
This project will be agent for people to move up from illinois, save on taxes, bring their businesses as they are now. Do you think Bill Kurtz, that the people in Illinois that are not lefties are so stupid that hey will stay down there, drive, pay high taxes instead of moving to Wis.
Amazon is giant attraction, also opposed by the left and the people are coming and bringing their jobs, businesses with them.
Left’s Motto; “Stupid is as Stupid does>
Kimberly-Clark did not move HQ from Wisconsin because of leftists. CEO Darwin Smith wanted a warm weather home in a “prestige” city far bigger than Appleton and in a state with zero personal income tax. The end. Stop already with the goofball memes. Of course he blamed his decision on others. Guys like that often do.
Baloney. best to have people think you are ignorant then prove it. Darwin Specifically said that he want to go to state that the atmosphere was pro business.
The Left in this state shows its stupidity by opposing what could be the biggest thing to happen here in 50 years. All because they are apoplectic they are going to lose their votes.
The Lefties at Marquette and UW love Foxconn and are going o jump in and help and expand their services to enhance our businesses.
Darwin Smith moved 75 KC execs to Irving, Texas in 1985. Smith left 5,100 employees to do virtually all of the company’s actual work back in Wisconsin, including the nascent and for a time wildly successful Midwest Express Airline operation. Midwest is gone, perhaps because management was too far away, but more likely because predatory acquisition in the commercial aviation industry — unrelieved by laissez-faire competition regulation in D.C. — did it in.
The underlying point, which puts the lie to the estimable Smith’s claim, is that it was the natural resources of this state that made KC a powerhouse. Smith turned the company into a commodites supplier, eventually divesting it of all its paper mills. He did not acknowledge that Wisconsin’s reforestation after the first great wave of lumbering in the 1800s made his paper company possible and successful. He felt he owed nothing to Wisconsin. And so he split, with a handful of execs and to a zero-income tax state that didn’t serve most of its residents well but was a haven for big bidness. A location that let him continue for years to pillage Wisconsin natural resources at lower cost.
Brilliant marketer, but Smith was not a very good member of the community. I worked some years at Wisconsin Electric, which because of the nature of its business could not move away from its customers. Realizing that, it invested heavily in the communities it served, with foundation grants and non-utility investments and loaned executive help to non-profits and business development groups.
And instead of pulling its share of the weight, when Wisconsin (like Minnesota, which stayed the course) saw the need to ask its corporate citizens to help the state move forward, investing in new infrastructure and helping it cope with the sudden deindustrialization that capped firms like Allis-Chalmers, the guys in the corporate suites said yes grudgingly or no, not on your life. Thing is, neither Wisconsin Democrats nor Republicans back then were about to create a Texas-like, 19th century tax structure for Smith’s benefit. Not even Gov. Business, Tommy Thompson himself, was going to buy that.
WCD wears red-tinged glasses on this one. Equating environmental activists and concerned citizens with “the left” is ridiculous. The citizens worried about the Foxconn deal aren’t against locating a plant here, they’re against locating a plant here that gives away incredible sums of tax dollars to a foreign corporation — a huge opportunity cost — and a plant that inspires our GOP leadership to once again slash environmental oversight.
Plenty of self-styled conservatives who once cared about natural resources, like for instance Gov. Warren Knowles, are likely turning in their graves. There is a way to do this without kowtowing to Foxconn’s ridiculous conditions. It was not really different when the Bucks talked Walker into conjuring a $250 million handout of state and local tax dollars — mostly local in that case. But at least that maneuver didn’t destroy the village in order to save the village fools.
What Walker did here is truly a game changer. For the next 18 months Fox conn will be the issue. The “Dems” will side it is too much corporate welfare and the environment , and Walker will tout the 10,000 jobs that could have gone some where else. This will be a 66–33 issue and the “Dems ” will lose. and probably Tammy Baldwin.
We wish all the Lefties on this site would apply all their expertise to fix Milwaukee.
And would have done something when Doyle was Gov. Oh that’s right you did do something you bankrupted the state.
Suck Lemons kiddies we will beat you over the head with this for decade.
You guys should get a room. You can snuggle and see who loves Walker more. The winner gets to receive a reach-around from the loser. Although really you both win.
Vince, I like to think I am pro-gay. I just cannot quite pull that trigger maybe I can use your Mr. T sex doll.
@WCD — Please don’t encourage the racist lefties to mess up Milwaukee anymore than they already have.
Marxist liberal Democrats hate this deal because they’re going to lose $3BN in taxpayer money that could have otherwise been used to play identity politics. God forbid people actually have jobs!! The environmental issues are little more than a red-herring.
Maybe it’s time for the regressive lefties to pack-up and emigrate to the Socialist Republic of Al-Frankenstan. Wisconsin is going to stay (R) for at least a generation.
“Maybe it’s time for the regressive lefties to pack-up and emigrate to the Socialist Republic of Al-Frankenstan. Wisconsin is going to stay (R) for at least a generation.”
Wow you right-wingers just keep showing off your smarts.
-Minnesota economy beats Wisconsin: 7 charts, 1 table
http://blogs.mprnews.org/newscut/2015/01/minnesota-economy-beats-wisconsin-7-charts-1-table/
@ Vinnie Hannah
“Wow you right-wingers just keep showing off your smarts.”
So says the self-loathing, homophobic liberal that uses gay sex acts to try and taunt conservatives. You’re so Progressive!!
When are some of you going to wake up??
This project is NOT about Dems and GOP, it’s not about Left and Right, it’s about jobs. Good jobs. You should be happy something is coming to Wisconsin.
You gotta better plan? Let’s see it.
Can you get it funded (a BIG question)? Let’s see the dough.
So many people whining in Wisconsin about jobs and then when a huge initiative is at the doorstep, some are saying it’s a failure before the blueprints are even drawn up.
With a big opportunity knocking at the door, some say “lock the door, we’ll just sit here and starve.”
Amazing. Just amazing.
JC is any level of skepticism legitimate at this point? I don’t think most people are outright opposed to this or rooting for it to fail. I really don’t want to get into another pointless tiff. I think you make some valid points. Do you think it’s best to avoid skepticism until we have more details? Would anything give you pause or do you see no downside to this deal?
I disagree with JC, Let us take an issue like Obamacare and expanded Medicaid. The left won. Vincent Hanna and the left won the argument. The Right could not message an argument to the American public. I personally think abled bodied men should should not sit on Medicaid and pursuit a life of X-box adventures. We will see national healthcare in the next decade. It won’t be pretty but will all be suffering together(except the rich). Like wise Wisconsin Democrats(the left) are in a box. They have to design a message to take down Foxconn. It is a tough task, maybe they can poison a Walker win. It is hard to argue against the Foxconn deal. The Left has to take down Foxconn or lose Tammy Baldwin. Will it be enough for the Left to simply ignore Foxconn and move directly to Trump, may be their only political move.
A conservative who worships the free market and hates the government picking winners and losers says it’s hard to argue against Foxconn? I guess left is right and right is left.
Mueller is convening a grand jury. Trump won’t be in office by November 2018. That’s not going to help Republicans in the midterms.
I agree with Vincent that Trump will be out of the white house by 11/18, if not sooner. His obsessive, infantile and malicious bullying will be repulsive even to most of those who voted for him by then. Unsavory connections with Russian pols and oligarchs will also most likely be revealed in the host of investigations going on now re Russia. At some point in the near future, Trump supporters will be out-numbered by persons who believe that Elvis Presley is still alive.
I also think that Walker will be out of our gov’s mansion by 2019. People associated with Trump are looking worse and worse for wear.
Back to the point of Brostoff’s opposition to the Foxconn proposal, anyone with a functioning b.s. detector would be hard pressed to get enthusiastic over a deal promoted by the trio of Trump, Walker and Ryan. Trump has kept his father’s money in circulation largely by conning his associates. He has possibly added to that by diminishing the character and the pocket-books of associates. Consider how Trump has humiliated Walker, Ryan, Priebus, Romney, Cruz, Paul, Rubio … CC
Cut a deal with Trump at the top of it – and/or with others feeding off the bottom of it who have been brutalized by the bully in chief, and the chances are good that you will be a loser in that deal. Trump has profited at the expense of those willing to be made fools. He has made fools of many Republicans recently. I hope he does not succeed in creating a nation of fools.
The CC at the end of post # 87 could be read as Chris Cristy … and the list goes on.
Hey Terry Gou calls his employees animals and has zoo personnel give management tips. What a swell boss!
And Americans for Prosperity comes out against the deal. So I guess Troll and WCD and WashCoRepub are a bunch of socialists.
Wisconsin Conservative Digest declared a bit upstream that Democrats “bankrupted” the state. That is a Republican talking point and canard. The state was not bankrupted nor has it ever been. Walker in his first campaign used the overreaching rhetoric of calling the state “broke” because of a billion-dollar-plus structural deficit (the difference between what agencies request in each new biennium and what the legislature deems worthy to appropriate). Of course, Walker “fixed” that by signing a budget that clawed back about a billion in public sector compensation along with targeted tax cuts, but then in each succeeding budget contended with — surprise! — inevitable, similarly sized STRUCTURAL DEFICITS, over and over again, because, of course, it’s procedural and thus structural. Only, since he’s been in charge, it has been no big whup. It’s only a sign of political decay when a Democratic governor faces one.
Meanwhile, Wisconsin’s Sam Brownback-esque, virtual zeroing out of business taxes on manufacturers and agricultural producers has cost the state a quarter billion in revenue in just the past year. That would have paid for the I-94 rebuild Walker suddenly is eager to spend, probably by borrowing, again, so our grandkids will be paying off an even bigger balance on the Walker transportation credit card, with interest.
I am certain, that if the $3 billion deal-o-rama is approved, Walker soon after will moan about how the state has a revenue problem and thus needs to cut taxes some more (supply-side nerd that he is) while whacking more programs that actually benefit the state’s economy, along with citizens and workers, and some of which programs would protect the environment if Walker Republicans hadn’t mostly destroyed this state’s ground-breaking and traditional regard for natural resources. Oops, there goes a 3-billion-dollar damn.
Mr. Legro,
Your discussion regarding potential pollution from high tech manufacturing operations is blown out of proportion. States like Oregon, Minnesota, Massachusetts and California, where even you have to admit have rather stringent environmental laws, all seem not to have a problem with these types of facilities.
It looks to me that your problem is really with Scott Walker.
Mr. K: Every state you mentioned has tougher than average environmental laws, which have not been compromised in the development of new industry and high tech. Whereas this state under this governor and legislature has gutted environmental protections, turning DNR into a business-centric, politically compliant commerce agency. Here’s one example in just four words: Kewaunee County well pollution.
Ron Legro –
You Sir, are lying through your teeth. (sorry, but no other way to put it)
I called the Governor’s Office and got the same Press Kit AND Legislator’s Kit that summarizes the project to the Media and to the Legislators. In those packages are several things not highlighted by the Legislator here, Mr, Brostoff, or the Wisconsin Press.
First, there is a 2:1 Mitigation requirement for the replacement of ALL Wetlands used. So if they destroy 100 acres, they are REQUIRED to replace it with 200 acres. If they take up and destroy 300 acres, they need to replace it with 600 acres. Get the picture? NO waivers. In fact, that protects the current environment and adds more.
AND- that is a NEW State requirement that has been first issued on this Foxconn project. ALSO- ALL Water pollution requirements – at EVERY level will be enforced and shall not waived. (including the BiNational agreement with Canada that most here didn’t even know existed)
It’s all there in black-and-white, so where are you getting your phony facts?? Or, are you making them up as you go?
ALSO, in the area of job creation AND spending money in the state. $5.7 Billion of the costs (Construction costs, etc.) MUST be paid to Wisconsin-based firms. It is earmarked for LOCAL businesses. That is a huge chunk of the project money.
So those are jobs NOT related to the Foxconn plant employees, but to local construction companies tasked to do all the infrastructure improvements and the building itself.
Sounds like a good plan to me. I would be asking more questions but we need to give them some time. You can be skeptical, but at least be positive that this is good for the state.
And again, where is YOUR plan to get Wisconsin moving again? The same goes for Mr. Brostoff whose ideas harken back to the 1930s.
I hope these are valid questions and not considered to be baseless criticism.
In yesterday’s paper Mike Lovell raves about the deal and points to Google & Pittsburgh as an example of how Foxconn could revolutionize the region. But is that really an apples to apples comparison? Did Pittsburgh give Google a $3 billion incentive package?
Also, the Washington Post ran a really interesting story over the weekend. It’s about how manufacturing is changing and uses a company in Wisconsin to demonstrate those changes. It’s a small company, only 50 or 100 employees, but it always has openings it can’t fill. It got desperate so it turned to robots because of the constant unfilled openings. It talks about how this is happening more and more and why companies can’t fill these jobs. Makes you wonder if those are warning signs.
Vincent Hanna and anyone else worried about Robots.
If a company is building out a whole new plant, it is going to be looking at building it with Robots on Day one – with whatever they need.
I never heard of any company building out a new facility with manual assembly lines with the intent on switching them out in a year or two for Robots. (that is just unheard of)
If the plant calls for Robots, that will be in the initial design and built out for Day one. It is what is left which becomes the jobs to be filled.
If the rest of Wisconsin is smart- like the University and all the technical schools (junior colleges), they would be investigating what types of skills are needed for the Plant and design their curricula accordingly.
I am sure there will technician jobs that can be filled by people with a two-year degree as well as those higher-level jobs requiring a bachelors or Masters degree.
Now is the time to revamp and replace old curricula lingering on from the 20th century. You cannot offer up 20th century solutions for 21st century challenges.
The Plant should be coordinating with both schools as to what it will need in worker skills and they can start rolling out courses now.
But what about the fact that this plant (and they are hardly the only one) can’t fill job openings? They are a small factory and they have constant openings they can’t fill. They only resorted to robots because they felt they had no choice. Couldn’t that happen at Foxconn?
Here’s the story. It’s worth a read. https://www.washingtonpost.com/national/rise-of-the-machines/2017/08/05/631e20ba-76df-11e7-8f39-eeb7d3a2d304_story.html?utm_term=.216b3805425e
Reading comments from the Left opposing new jobs in Wisconsin shows exactly why the left has 15 governors, just lost one, no presidentn no legislature, o excuse me 6, no Senate and no Congress.
Please keep it up you daily make butts out of yourselves and hand the Conservatives the elections. Most people want jobs.
not food stamps and you saw the line last week to work at Amazon, in kenosha.
If only we had a large pool of unemployed people within commuting distance that could really use a $30k/yr job that could be trained for this work…
It’s as simple as that huh? Well I guess there won’t be any problems then.
Irony time for Wis Con Digest: Some Amazon workers earn so little they STILL qualify for food share.A non-family-supporting job that’s nearly an hour from home one way may be better than no job but then you have to wonder why conservatives (absent wingnut standard-bearer Americans For Prosperity) are so interested in giving. $10 or 15K a year in state tax subsidies for each such job. Can Foxconn now not afford below-average wages? Focus on the opportunity costs of walkernomics, which are huge.
There are certainly a plethora of issues to be worked out if any deal is to be completed. The vitriol and snipe from Wisconsin Conservative leads me to conclude he/she needs a better pastime. Possibly a job.
Speaking of which — Scott Walker has never held a job besides as a lifetime politician. Brostoff is correct when he notes the positive impact that $3 billion can have on our public infrastructure that is wasting away due to non-benign neglect. What guarantees is FoxConn willing to provide for length of jobs, safety, infrastructure support, pollution control and longevity? Not only is it fair, but is is the responsibility of all of our elected leaders, regardless of party or position to demand and require hard answers. Jamming this down the citizens of Wisconsin is a poor choice. The juvenile banter notwithstanding.
Well, JC, there’s your problem right there. You read the fabulous press kit from the gov’s office and the fabulous summary (i.e., incomplete) description of his proposal, whereas I and others have read the entire proposal and found it lacking. Any number of issues are to be worked out later — but we can have no patience when the GOP Ledge is ramming this through to passage at warp speed. That said, some Republican lawmakers have questions and concerns, too, but do not seem to be regarded as liars by the likes of you and others.
Mitigating the destruction of natural wetlands by creating even more artificial wetlands is indeed “legal” in the sense that it’s become an accepted practice in Wisconsin thanks to indifferent or anti-environment, pro-business politicos. It’s NOT new — the Walker DNR in June approved wetlands destruction for a frack-sand mining operator in western Wisconsin, using a measure he signed in 2012 at the behest of private develoeprs (the current DNR secretary *is* one) and a 2013 law he pushed through expressingly to serve the Goegebic strip mine proposal.
Without an Environmental Impact Statement assessing unique qualities of the wetlands that Foxconn would be allowed to destroy with DNR oversight, we’d never know how rare and unusual those particular bodies were. Streams and lakes in the development zone, too. Moreover, naturalists and biologists doubt the value of wetlands trade-offs, given their track record.
Worse, Walker’s proposal waves huge swaths of existing state environmental law based on no precedents to speak of, unless you count AG Brad Schimel’s rhetorical assertion that it’s all cool.
From my esteemed former colleague Jim Rowen at The Political Environment:
> One water expert says Walker’s program, if approved, is headed for time-consuming court action as he thrusts into state law – – and literally into the people’s lakes, rivers and streams – – an unprecedented list of predictably polluting privileges for anyone building in what Team Walker’s wordsmiths call an “electronics and information technology manufacturing zone.”
> But if Foxconn is allowed to build, clear, dredge and or dump onto shorelines, or into wetlands and lake bed land that are protected from incursion and development in the public interest, what it to stop, for example, Kohler golf course designers from expecting the same permission to extend the project onto the Lake Superior shoreline, or to wall off access to it the water’s edge, including from the adjoining Kohler Andrae State Park?
> Right now, such actions would be impermissible under the Public Trust Doctrine as written as article IX of the State Constitution.
Rowen continues:
> Walker’s $3 billion state payments and subsidy bill for Foxconn development in the state collides with Article IX of the State Constitution because the bill would allow the diversion of waterways, filling of wetlands and other affronts to publicly-owned waters and water rights which the [state] constitution says must be protected in the public interest by the state as the people’s trustee.
> It’s such a basic principle of life and legacy in Wisconsin that I have had this note copied out on my blog’s front page for years:
> WHAT WATER, WETLAND PROTECTION IS ALL ABOUT
“A little fill here and there may seem to be nothing to become excited about. But one fill, though comparatively inconsequential, may lead to another, and another, and before long a great body may be eaten away until it may no longer exist. Our navigable waters are a precious natural heritage, once gone, they disappear forever,” wrote the Wisconsin Supreme Court in its 1960 opinion resolving Hixon v. PSC and buttressing The Public Trust Doctrine, Article IX of the Wisconsin State Constitution..
Here’s the bill Walker wants to pass gutting waterways rules and laws and making other advance environmental concessions to Foxconn. The tax giveaway proposal is measurable in its opportunities versus cost. The cost of gutting environmental regulations in ways that would permit many other companies to do likewise is simply, at this point and in the future if this measure is signed into law, incalcuable.
Oops, here’s that linke I promised to the language of the Walker proposed measure gutting environmental standards and reviews under current state law, all to lure Foxconn to the Lake Michigan shoreline. What could possibly go wrong? Well, this law ensures we’ll have a much harder time finding out later. That bill, analyzed by the Legislative Reference Bureau:
https://jwyjh41vxje2rqecx3efy4kf-wpengine.netdna-ssl.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/07/170728FoxconnBillDraft.pdf
Oops, here’s that link I promised to the language of the Walker proposed measure gutting environmental standards and reviews under current state law, all to lure Foxconn to the Lake Michigan shoreline. What could possibly go wrong? Well, this law ensures we’ll have a much harder time finding out later. That bill, analyzed by the Legislative Reference Bureau:
https://jwyjh41vxje2rqecx3efy4kf-wpengine.netdna-ssl.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/07/170728FoxconnBillDraft.pdf
it is amazing how such stupid people (Wlaker and Friends) can control the whole state except for Milwaukee and madison, which are disasters.
MPS and Mad city schools are run by left and naturally a “disgrace”.
Dems only have 15 states just lost one, and 6 legislatures plus nutting else. So the bird brains on this site reflect what is National norm for left. Cause as they are opposed to jobs and economy but worry about toilets.
No wonder the youth, millennial have abandoned you.
“No wonder the youth, millennial have abandoned you.”
Um Hillary won Millennials 55%-37%. And then there’s this: “Polls early in his presidency consistently show Trump facing lower job-approval ratings, and greater resistance to his key ideas, among Millennials than among any older generation.”
In other words, you are completely and totally wrong. Shocker.
VINCENT HANNA
Again, you oversimplify the findings and do not tell the whole story.
If you would have dug deeper in your research, you would have found that Hillary did NOT get as many Millennial votes as Obama did in 2012.
She got 55% of the vote compared to Obama getting 60% of the Millennial vote. Also, in 2016, one out of ten Millennials voted a third party candidate (like Jill Stern) – so a split to a third party killed her as well. So, she did NOT get a big a vote as Obama did in 2012. More Millennials learned their lesson – as explained below.
You aren’t the only one that got the analysis wrong. ALL the experts that thought Hillary was going to win by a landslide (even up to the last day) were totally wrong. Their formulas did not figure that many who have been disenfranchised were going to show up and vote for Trump.
I knew some people who had not voted for 20 years and they came out and voted for Trump because they were so fed up.
People, who have been caught in the middle and paying taxes for both the rich and those on entitlements were – and are – tired of picking up the tab for everyone else.
But who cares about slicing-and-dicing the past. We’re past the Election. We need to move forward.
All the starry-eyed Millennials who voted in 2012 and found out after graduating they couldn’t get more than a minimum-wage job learned the hard way that the economy was dead and their degree meant nothing as to getting a better job than they could have gotten just coming out of HS. Now, four years after HS and having a $40K-$80K student Loan on their backs, many saw that voting for all this “Freebie stuff” wasn’t getting them anywhere. Ask any waitress who is serving tables with a big Student Loan hanging over her head – she probably voted for Trump -or Sanders, but not Hillary.
Bernie Sanders, promising “Free School” and forgiving Student Loans got a lot of young votes because that is the only major issue on their minds – who is going to pay off my loans? Not me! Well, most learned their lesson.
Nothing is FREE. Someone has to pick up the tab. A life’s lesson that was somehow absent in most colleges’ curricula.
AND, Trump’s ratings may be low, but they are a lot higher than Nancy Pelosi’s and Chuck Schumer – leaders of the Democratic Party.
Millennials want good jobs. Everyone wants good jobs. No one is going to be voting Democratic in 2018 and 2020 because the message is the same and no one is buying off on it.
The Democrats abandoned the working class and they have seen it beyond the 2016 Election. All four special elections after the Presidential Election have gone Republican. Even with negative ads and budgets spending $8 to $1 have not swayed angry voters. Some Dems are telling leadership to stop bashing Trump and going after a phony Russian collusion story because they are just losing more voters. The Dem base has eroded – badly – and if you don’t believe it, better do more research.
the Left has numbers stilshowing Hillary won by 20 points.
Damn that’s a long rant (and you’re keeping company with WCD? Yikes). I didn’t get a single thing wrong. Clinton won Millennials right? OK so I am right about that. And Trump polls poorly with young voters right? Again, that’s a fact. So I said two things that are completely and totally true and you respond with a novel-length screed that dabbles in fake news claims among other things. I don’t really get what your agenda is here. You seem to have an ax to grind for some reason.
It’s also pretty hilarious and ironic when some smug asshole condescendingly instructs others to do more research while claiming Russian collusion (which every intelligence agency confirms) is phony. Not to mention it’s hardly just “Dems” going after collusion that actually happened. Talk about the pot calling the kettle black.
VINCE
You FAILED to point out those little nuances that make a BIG difference. You cannot come to conclusions without looking at all the results and how it changed from one election to the other. Fake News? Why because it punches holes in your theory?
FACT: She did not get as much of a percentage of Millennial votes as the Democratic candidate did in 2012 and that hurt her. She got 55%. He got 60% in 2012.
As to the Analysts and Pollsters, maybe they counted all those votes in their projections of her winning – but she didn’t get that extra 5% that Obama did. In key areas, that killed her.
And forget about the popular vote.
1) We have the Electoral College and that’s how the winner is picked.
2) Out of that big popular vote, how many votes were cast by illegals (which should have been thrown out – illegal votes don’t count) Can’t say how many there were because no one wants to go back and audit the Election totals. They are afraid to.
If that were the case, discounting illegal votes cast, who knows, Illinois may have gone to Trump? Many illegals in Illinois (with Chicago a Sanctuary City)
Dems only worry about illegal votes for Trump, but they never mention wanting to discount all votes cast by illegals.
VINCE
Again, your research is faulty. 17 intelligence agencies did NOT confirm the Russian collusion.That was put out as fake news. 17 intelligence agencies did NOT conclude that. Wow, what other biased news stories are you believing??
Sorry, but not going to debate you. You already have proved that your sources are slanted. Better look a little harder to find out what is real, and what was a planted story.
And yes Vince, resort to profanity when you are losing an argument. The clear demonstration of a small mind.
Yes, JC, “only” the FBI, NSA, CIA and the Office of Director of National Intelligence issued that joint report. As Director Clapper later explained, “It wasn’t a full interagency community assessment that was coordinated among the 17 agencies and for good reason, because of the nature and the sensitivity of the information trying to, once again, keep this tightly compartmented.” So it’s just a really well-documented conclusion by the biggest agencies, so Trumpies can pretend it’s inconsequential. Hey, NCIS didn’t contribute, so how could we trust a finding without Mark Harmon’s input?
As for the Trump et. al. canard that millions of illegal immigrants voted for Hillary: There is not a shred of evidence of that although there is much blowhard rumor mongering from crazy sources like Infowars, and in fact local voter registration systems recorded no such irregularities. Vote fraud is exceedingly rare because of existing registration requirements. It would much easier to manipulate votes on electronic voting machines, which Russian hackers apparently attempted. Hilariously, when progressive groups including the Stein campaign sought recounts in key swing states and balloting audits, it was REPUBLICANS who fought these requests.
In Wisconsin, the GOP-controlled legislature was so ticked that anyone would try to verify the vote that, following the fall election, they passed a law making it almost impossible to request a recount in future elections. The strong evidence against this fact-free fantasy is surveyed here:
http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2016/nov/28/donald-trump/donald-trumps-pants-fire-claim-millions-illegal-vo/
I also had a chuckle over your comment that “we have the Electoral College.” Yes you do, and that’s because in order to round up enough support for the Constitution, northern states in a bargaining concession (unions supposedly shouldn”t be allowed to bargain while politicians do it constantly) had to give southern states relatively more power than represented by the latter’s population, since those southern states were really worried they’d be outvoted in Congress on stuff like, oh you know, getting rid of slavery.
A bonus boon for smaller states was designing Congress so that the smallest states would have at minimum three members of Congress — two senators and one member of the House — and thus three members in the Electoral College. Thus, for example, each member of the Electoral College chosen by Caliifornia by law represents 679,000 citizens, yet in Wyoming each equally powerful elector represents only 189,000 citizens. So much for one person one vote. But those defects have nothing to do with state elections, although gerrymandering certainly does. We *are* supposed to be talking about a State of Wisconsin issue here.
The voter roles have at lest ten million errors and many those voted last time. Pence will prove that. Calif. Illinois will show millions
Take note of two sources that lib vincent hanna gets his information from. The liberal madison rag newspaper and the washington post. Says a lot about this whiny lib. He argues with people on here just to have someone to communicate with while he is camped out in his mommy’s basement using her computer. vincent your mama will spank you again when she catches you getting her keyboard all sticky with that white goo you spew.
Who are you WC? If there are “extra” voters it will be because of computers and NO auditing. If WC is from Wisconsin she/he will remember the Supreme Court race where the Waukesha County decided the election with open bags of votes etc. Paper Ballots that are ALL audited until we reestablish confidence in the voting system. Paper and election observers are the only way to honest elections. The minority party in each election district is the key to honest elections. Peace
since you are completely ignorant of the process, the rolls, the voting, it is impossible to explain these things to an ignoramus till he acquires some knowledge.
Pence will show this. i have open bet of $1,000 or more about the results.
Ah WC Now we KNOW why, is it a he or she, uses WC and not a name. Such POWER in insulting others as if I do not know how voting works. SAD such behavior but then again what has our President taught so many Peace Tom Spellman
My mother is dead Bob you right-wing asshole. I hope yours isn’t as worthless as you are.
Vincent It is true that some are disrespectful but it it better not to join them in the gutter. Their words speak for themselves Peace
Sometimes a line is crossed. That one hits too close to the bone.
Reading the people on this site proves that few of you know or understand the process.
Fact is that there is over ten million on the rolls: dead, moved, college bound, service, name changes cause of marriage, aliens, immigrants, felons and others that are registered. Many are voted according to many studies we have seen over the last 50 years.
States, local groups do not purge the rolls anymore like they used to with post cards, cause of lefty lawsuits that stopped them so people will stay on forever, even if they do not vote and have left are or the earth.
Daley: Vote every democrat on the rolls no matter how.
That is why the Left on this site, poor little dears are some easily insulted, either totally ignorant or just stupid, want to stop pence cause this will all come out now and be a wake up call especially in Illinois, California etc.
This is a game for adults, big boys, all other games are for kiddies, which I read all the time here.
Can’t take some heat get out of the kitchen.
Ah WC whoever you are. What happened in the past is not what is happening today. Today with in some cases the elimination of the paper ballot there is not verifiable trail for each vote and that should scare even you unless you are sure that your folks control all the processes as they did with the Supreme Court recount. I suspect you will not be in favor of the simple internal controls necessary to be sure that there is no voter fraud and one of those is making sure that the minority party be present in all wards where the majority party controls. What is good for the goose is good for the gander as an old saying goes.
Peace
Spellman that is the dumbest comment here.
Ah WC can you be specific and not insulting?? Maybe you do not realize that the basics of voting are simple. A name, poll workers who know the voters, a paper ballot, simple accounting to confirm that those who voted did vote and that the ballots that were printed are accounted for and a few other details. Oh that is right the poll workers need to be able to count.
Spellman you have no idea what you re talking about but the Pence study will show that to everyone. The problem is the Registration Rolls, the Group Homes,
Nursing homes operatives coming in for election a hundred voted, buses from Illinois like the Van vanguard race. ignorant should be your middle name.
Hey WCD what do you make of Americans for Prosperity opposing Foxconn? You certainly can’t accuse them of being liberal Walker haters.
Well at least I get Spellman Wish I could say Peter or Joe or is it Sharon?? I know the election process better than you in that anyone who sees a bus pull up to a polling place and think that those folks have been bused in from any place else much less over the state line and voted illegally is delusional. First the poll workers who are from both parties and the poll watchers would have to be part of the illegality and that is just not going to happen!!! There are places where the system needs tightening up and voter ID is not even one of then BUT buses of folks voting illegally is not any part of it. Peace Tom
Hey All- Just jumping in and have been out of town so reading all of the comments seems a monumental task- the comments I have read seem more concerned with voting issues (of which there sure are plenty) rather than Foxconn. I have a concern regarding Foxconn and it’s environmental footprint on the wetlands and headlands of the Des Plains River Basin. I spent years around Joliet and Three Rivers yacht clubs on the Des Plains. After all the cleanup, that started in the 1970’s, it seems a shame to allow this area to revert back to the dirty days prior to clean up. It appears now that impact studies will be bypassed in order to ‘fast track’ this deal. That seems like a bad idea- perhaps stupid.
WCD: Georgia just purged the names of nearly 600,000 voters from its rolls simply because they hadn’t voted recently. This is like negative-option billing: If you don’t take positive action, you are penalized. But hassling people to frequently re-confirm their status is likely to drive many of them away — which, from the standpoint of Georgia Republicans, is the actual idea. What’s next, losing your citizenship because you don’t report into a government office along with your “papers”? Poll taxes have long been illegal so vote suppressionists now focus on taxing people’s time and patience: http://www.rawstory.com/2017/08/georgia-purges-591k-voters-simply-because-they-didnt-vote-in-the-last-3-years/
The Georgia poll lists were bad as they r across the country. They are filled with dead people, aliens, felons, illegals students from other countries, students from other states, double registers, duplicate names, problems with group homes to the tune of more then ten million, name changes. In Milwaukee are we used to send out post card every year like In West allis and then purge names that the post cards come back.
But as part of the lefty voter program they want to keep all of them on the poll lists so they can be voted in pinch. The Daley program it is called.
WC whoever you are No one is arguing that voter fraud is acceptable. Also mass removal of names on voting list is not a solution either. A basic right at least in the US is not to vote and yet to be registered because the none voters are a voice as well. What does a just voting system look like? Are “Conservatives” willing to work on designing the element of such a system. Paper Ballots, No computers, hand counting, small polling districts so the polling workers know the voters. The list are public so they are verifiable by any group and as I have said in the past the minority party being active in the elections wards of the majority party of each district. Peace
Paper ballots?? Sure, just what the Left wants. In 1960 Daley waited fro all of the South Illinois votes to come in then announced the vote, and burned all the paper ballots. JFK won Illinois and Texas, through fraud, and everyone knew it, but the lawsuit would have taken so long that the Russians would have taken advantage of it so Nixon backed off. I was Nixon delegate.
If you fail to keep the ten million or more that are on the rolls through various reasons, off they will be voted, and fraud is what the left uses to keep in power in many urban areas.
WC whoever you are. Oh just because it is alleged that Kennedy stole the election we should allow others to steal future elections. History is history and we should all learn from that. If we do not have verifiable elections the we will not even know who stole it and so in a perverse way it is better to know who stole the election than NOT to know WHO stole the election. The trick here is to make and keep the elections honest and what are the elements of that process yes paper ballots are the foundation. Peace
Leftt’s only interest is power and money, so they can control the urban areas. Everyone else has figured that out and voted them out.
They will do anything and do the fraud to keep in power.
Unless you take people off the rolls that do not belong there and let those that do register at polls, if they are off, they will continue to do that.
That is why they are apoplectic about the Pence study.
WCD: You seem to not to have many arguments refuting concern here and elsewhere that the Foxconn proposal is badly flawed except to claim it’s a dumb claim. And to change the subject. Get back on topic, please. Meanwhile, I can’t let huge misrepresentations in your post go unremarked, especially, that Chicago Mayor Daley stole the election for JFK in 1960. Digest this: Illinois didn’t change the national outcome. Although the election was the closest in U.S. history up to that point in terms of the popular vote, Kennedy’s margin in the electoral college was more than large enough to survive the loss of Illinois. Given that Trump just took the same route to the White House, you’d maybe want to synchronize your contrary attitudes. Irrefutable facts, via the WashPost:
> Kennedy won 303 electoral votes; his Republican opponent Richard Nixon won 219. (The remaining 15 electors voted for segregationist Democrat Harry Byrd.) If Illinois’s 27 electoral votes shifted from Kennedy to Nixon, Kennedy would still have won, with 276 votes to Nixon’s 246. Only 269 were needed to win in 1960 (vs. 270 today).
> A more accurate claim is that Nixon would have won, with 270 electoral votes, if he had flipped both Illinois and Texas. But Texas wasn’t nearly as close as Illinois… . [JFK] won Texas, the home state of his running mate Lyndon Johnson, by 46,627 votes (2 percent)….
Another myth … is that Kennedy’s margin of victory in Cook County, where Daley chaired the Democratic Central Committee, was “huge” or even impossible without fraud. In fact, Kennedy’s margin was pretty typical for the time and about what he should have expected.
Thanks Ron for the factual information about the Kennedy victory. WC says that there are people who should not be on the voter rolls and that is curious in that I know of NO judge who finding a person guilty of a crime that disenfranchises their voting rights to have their name removed from all voting polls that he/she might be listed on. As people move they may still be listed on a previous voter list. There is NO law that requires anyone who loses their right to vote to remove themselves from a voter list as well. If this was such a issue for WC you would have thought that he would be on the forefront of such a law. Hummm as I say. Why is it that WC does not want to make the system more accountable by using to paper ballots small voting districts and no electronic. Peace Tom and thanks again Ron
I have been following the toxic posts of Wisconsin Conservative Digest for some time and have come to the conclusion that if he really had the courage of his convictions, he would use his real name. The issue of voter fraud has been litigated in several Federal courtrooms. The well financed Republicans, who ideally would narrow the list of eligible voters to old angry white men like themselves, have never been able to prove their claims as to massive voter fraud. The telephone book contains names of people who are deceased or have moved from their original addresses. Does this make the entire telephone book fraudulent? People like WCD have political views that are in the same vain as creationists do on the age of the earth. They reject the vast majority of actual historical and scierntific evidence to cling to their reactionary and historically false narratives.
His name is Bob Donhal. I think he lives in Tosa and is pushing 80. What amazes me is that he hobnobs with prominent conservatives and appears to be respected by them. Considering what he posts here, that just defies all logic and reason.
Just to prove a point cause, the people here have little experience, knowledge or the ability to research and acquire some, I forwarded Howard Markleins comments on the recent actions of the Wisconsin Election commission’s housekeeping that removed 350,000 from Wisconsin Voter rolls in routine action.
Georgia/Carolina’s rolls have more of the same.
Our rolls are full of those types of problems at least ten million, probably twice was many. This lead to fraud, especially in the big urban areas dominated by Tamany hall, the Daley gang, California.
Fraud is worse now and the left encourage it everywhere. Wisconsin 2012 election was the worst.
Wisconsin Conservative Digest has been one of the leaders in Conservative politics since 1964 running over 100 campaigns plus the debate.
“Tamany hall”
As in the 1860s??!! Were you alive then?
This reader thought WCD had shot his wad a dozen times or more in the first 70 posts on this topic; then I went on vacation, and returned to find that he continued to whip his reactionary wire service phantom fact machine for another 20 to 30 of the following 70 or so posts. Ultimately, nothing came from all of WCD’s self abuse at the expense of others; therefore, WCD may have won this battle on his terms. I’m ready to toss in a towel. Towels are needed here. This is a mess.
The sub and vote in the Assembly means no guarantee for job creation and no real clawbacks, no protections for our tax dollars. The only chance to stop this boondoggle will be in the senate.
Senate will vote overwhelmingly for Fox conn. JB’s entry is completely fabrication of facts. Never believe the left on anything.
“Never believe the left on anything.”
Ah yes the elusive truth. I looked at your site to see what you are saying. Your site says that the left was carrying Nazi flags in Virginia. That George Soros paid people to carry Nazi flags. You say there are no Nazi groups in the United States. You and the truth parted ways a long, long time ago.
when the Sessions investigation and the Pence investigations are through so will be the Left.
In Wisconsin you are laughed at, no ideas, Ichabod Crane as your Gubernatorial candidate and against jobs and the working people, opposite of what Lucey, Nelson were for.
Except worried about where people go to pee what else does the Democrat party work about?
I didn’t say a word about Sessions or Pence. You must not be able to read.
There is not active party of nazis in this country.
Last prominent person that I know that was nazi sympathizer was joe Kennedy.
If the AntiFa and the alt left are such proud people why do they hide behind masks, take pay from Soros, throw bags of Urine on our great cops and beat up people with ax handles from lester maddox?
Head, meet rear.
In the real world of right-wingnuts, “Soros” is the all-purpose bogeyman that the fictional Emmanuel Goldstein was for the Big Brother state in “1984.”