GOP’s New Way to Suppress Votes
States like Wisconsin change voting rules, cause confusion, lower Democratic turnout.
I Voted
The Republican Party has won the popular vote for president just once since 1988, and is certain to lose again this November. Their 2012 candidate Mitt Romney gained just 6 percent of the African American vote, 26 percent of Asian Americans, 27 percent of Hispanics, 30 percent of Jewish voters and 37 percent of voters under the age of 30. The GOP has become the party of older white Protestants and Catholics in a country where that portion of the population keeps declining; America will likely be a majority minority nation by 2044.
In short, it is increasingly difficult, almost impossible for the party to forge a winning coalition nationally. The numbers simply don’t add up. Which helps explain the party’s post-2012 report pushing for a shift in policies to embrace Hispanics (which never happened) and the fact that GOP-controlled states are passing ever more restrictions on voting. In off-year elections a lower turnout by young and minority voters results in Republican victories. Hence the election of Ron Johnson to the U.S. Senate in 2010. But in presidential election years, the far bigger turnout leads to Republican defeats. Which is why polls have consistently shown Johnson losing in 2016. And why the GOP may feel the only way to avoid such defeats is by finding ways to depress the turnout of young and minority voters.
At first the Republican-controlled states passing restrictions on voting followed the Indiana model, which required voters to have a photo ID, but allowed those who didn’t to fill out an affidavit swearing this was their true identity. In 2008, the U.S. Supreme Court, in Crawford v. Marion County Election Board, upheld the law in a 6-3 decision.
The liberal group One Wisconsin Now sued the state and in July U.S. District Judge James Peterson wrote a 119-page ruling that overthrew all these rules, concluding they were passed in order to make it harder for Democrats to vote. In particular, he noted, some of the measures were passed specifically “to suppress the reliably Democratic vote of Milwaukee’s African-Americans.” Noting that 100 qualified electors had been wrongly denied a free state ID, he ruled than the state Department of Motor Vehicles “must promptly issue a credential valid for voting, unless readily available information shows that the petitioner is not a qualified elector.”
The response by state officials is questionable to say the least. Audio recordings made in recent weeks show DMV workers are giving inaccurate and incomplete information to voters, as the Milwaukee Journal Sentinel reported. “The training that was provided to the DMV counter service was manifestly inadequate,” Judge Peterson charged.
The situation might help explain why Walker and Republicans ended civil service protections; DMV workers may feel they must follow orders that violate the court’s ruling in order to keep their jobs. Peterson increasingly is being forced to micro-manage the state agency to force it to follow the law: he wants the state to engage in a “communication blitz” to let people know their voting rights if they don’t have a birth certificate, and may ask the state to print “palm cards” that clearly explain how people can get a state ID.
Meanwhile, the switch back and forth in the law and in what government workers are telling potential voters creates confusion. And that’s a great way to discourage voting.
“There is massive confusion nationwide, on the part of voters and poll workers alike, about voter ID laws even where there is no state voter ID law,” Kathleen Unger, president of VoteRiders, a nonpartisan nonprofit group that disseminates accurate voting information nationwide, told writer Jacque Leslie, in a story for the New York Times. “That may explain why during a recent election Myrna Pérez, who directs the Brennan Center for Justice’s voting rights and elections project, was herself told by a poll official at her New Jersey precinct that she needed a photo ID, even though the state lacks a photo ID law,” Leslie writes.
The impact of this confusion was measured in a study of Texas’ 23rd Congressional District’s 2014 election by researchers at Rice University and the University of Houston. “In that election, Will Hurd, a Republican, defeated Pete Gallego, the Democratic incumbent, by 2,422 votes, a 2.1 percent margin,” Leslie reports. “The survey found that 12.8 percent of the district’s non-voting respondents cited lack of photo ID as a reason for not voting, and 5.8 percent said it was the main reason. But only 2.7 percent of the respondents actually lacked one of the seven permitted forms of photo ID… A much bigger number — around 10 percent of the non-voters — possessed the needed documentation but didn’t realize it.”
“The most prominent impact of the legislation,” the study concluded, was “due entirely to a misunderstanding or a general lack of information of the photo identification requirements.” Mark P. Jones, one of the study’s lead investigators, told Leslie that “You can make a good case that what put Hurd in office was voter ID — but not the law itself. What elected Hurd was the confusion surrounding the law.”
As in Wisconsin, Texas’ voter ID law was struck down by a district court, which found it discriminated against minority voters. But this resulted in confusion, “which state officials have seemed content to fan,” Leslie notes. “Texas officials published information on state websites and in other public materials that failed to explain adequately that voters who do not have the required ID, and could not reasonably get it, would still have a way to cast a ballot that counts.”
Is it a coincidence that state governmental agencies in both Texas and Wisconsin are less than helpful, if not downright misleading, in providing information to people seeking to vote? Leslie believes Texas officials will continue to resist the courts and run out the clock until the November election. Wisconsin may do the same.
Chaos and confusion caused by conflicting voting requirements isn’t a mistake, the liberal Daily Kos has argued, “it’s part of the plan.” Certainly states like Texas and Wisconsin don’t seem to be working very hard to make the laws clear to voters.
What I find extraordinary about the approach of states like Wisconsin is the willingness to disenfranchise not just Democrats, but many Republicans. A rule like the one excluding expired but otherwise qualifying student IDs will reduce the Democratic vote, but given that more than a third of college students supported Romney in 2012, it’s also likely to bar some Republicans from voting. Similarly, draconian voter ID requirements will likely reduce the Hispanic vote, but 27 percent of them voted Republican in 2012. The strategy seems to be that it’s okay to bar some Republicans from voting, as long as far more Democratic votes are suppressed.
The cynicism behind this approach suggests a party that no longer believes its policies can appeal to a majority of voters. So instead, it seizes on unconstitutional ways to suppress the vote. Dare I say this is un-American?
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Republican Jim Crow.
So the union employees at the DMV are suppressing democratic voters?
What Union members?? No union and no Civil Service Only when you loose it do you know what you have lost.
FUD Fear, uncertainty and doubt.
FUD Fear, uncertainty and doubt. Sent from Iowa where we don’t have this crap. Unless the Republicans win control of the state senate.
Yes, deliberate confusion to disenfranchise voters from both parties. I have never had a problem with a voter ID so long as the state ensures that every eligible voter gets the ID. But that is not what they are doing. It also adds another level of bureaucracy to the voting process, and does NOT shrink the role of government in people’s lives as the Republicans say they want to do.
POlitics runs on fear and paranoia. If Dems controlled, they’d be conjuring ways to suppress GOP voters. IT’s all a waste of our time. I embrace the ascendance of EMperor Trump. May the Farce be with you.
1- The confusion is NOT the objective; its just the best Republicans have been able to get in the imperfect world of democratic government. Republicans have totally embraced a major tenet of Fascism: undermine and/or discredit Democratic processes as “rigged” or “inefficient” or “fraudulent”, while setting records on Gerrymandering the electorate.
But Trump and his faithful have gone into aHistorical territory embracing the remaining tenets: threatening opposition with bodily harm or jail, supporting torture and elimination of “undesirable racial elements’, centralizing power in the cult of the individual, allying with other fascist or anti Democratic regimes, and fanning vigilantism and fear.
2- The best WE can do is get out the vote, PERIOD. And vote as early as possible to support the validity of such opportunities.
No confusion,the Dems will not be able to use vote fraud to win.
That’s interesting WCD because I’m sure that’s what you’ll be claiming after Trump officially loses the race.
Tim:
Exactly. Hold that thought until Nov. 9th, and then ask wcd to chime in on the full throat bellow from trump claiming massive voter fraud.
September 26th that is the starting point for the Democratic Hare in this race. Vans troll up and down the streets of Milwaukee and Madison to drag out everyone with a pulse, so their voices can be heard. Tom Barrett is paying double time to his staff his political machine. Corrosive lead pipes are on the back burner. The Republican tortoise must wait another week, so there is fairness in this electoral process.
You are in Glendale right Jason? Where’s your evidence of these vans in Milwaukee and Madison? You’ve seen it yourself? It couldn’t possibly be something you read on Drudge or heard from Alex Jones? Your alternate universe of a Wisconsin where GOP voters are suppressed is as vivid as it is fictional.
The Left has the best GOTV in Wisconsin for decade. Top Dems have told me that they know how every person in Wisconsin votes.
Ha sure they did WCD. Right after they told you about the global conspiracy plotting against Trump. Top Reps have told me Scott Walker is a lifelike robot like the ones seen on Westworld.
I am sure that you know little or nothing Dufus. WSJ reported that as fact. Where do you think they spent a billion on for Hillary’s bras?
The Left has built the finest GOTV in history, that is why Obama won.
Now top Dems are telling you about bras? Or the WSJ reported that? It’s hard to make sense of your incoherent rambling.
Discussing anything, with ignorant boobs like you, and Hanna is worthless. over and Out. Dufus.
jason:
FYI. Lead pipes aren’t corrosive.
WCD Any reason you continue to insult and name call?? Hummm What does that say about you. Time to think and reflect. May years ago I did one of my usual put downs and a man with a beard who I sort of knew just asked my why I did that? I had no answer and stopped. An opportunity to reflect and change Peace
WCD I legitimately couldn’t make sense of your comments. That’s on you, not me. You talked about getting intel from top Dems and something in the WSJ and Hillary’s bras. Try close reading those comments and think about how little sense they make to others.
it is amazing, but in all the states where these things are put into effect, the vote has gone up, especially in the inner cities where people finally know that their vote will count, not offset by corruption of the Left.
There could be other reasons but we do know that there are people who if they do not have the magic card can not vote. Does it matter if it is 1 or 10 or 1000? A citizen who has a right to vote can not exercise that right. Now if you want to deal with the “corruption” issue about voting then have accountants who are good at keeping track of our money in large part to basically audit the voting system Very simple accounting and we can be 100% sure that it is accurate. All the voter ID stuff has noting to do with the possible corruption of the voting. Computer and NO paper trail is where to look for possible corruption and yes that is PA. Peace Tom
So despite no history of voter fraud problems in this country, now people finally know their votes will count? Prior to all these voter ID laws no one believed their vote counted because of “corruption of the left?” What about black people of a certain age who lived in states where even in the ’50s and ’60s they were denied the right to vote? You have some old white man revisionist history problems WCD.
Also, you are flat-out wrong. “substantial drops in turnout for minorities under strict voter ID laws.” https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2016/02/04/new-evidence-that-voter-id-laws-skew-democracy-in-favor-of-white-republicans/
Who benefits from all these laws? White Republicans it turns out. Imagine that.
Voting is Your Right! If an alleged “poll watcher” tries to impede you at the voting booth tell him to kindly step out of the way. Take his picture with a cell phone and call the FBI. FBI agents can be reached on Tuesday at 412-432-4000. The Department of Justice Civil Rights Division Voting Section in Washington can be reached at 1-800-253-3931 or 202-307-2767. Please pass this on.
Whoa whoa whoa easy WCD. I am LAPD, homicide. Are you anti-police?
Trump is going around claiming widespread voter fraud is already taking place. Dead people are voting in droves. WCD you should tell him that voter ID laws means there is no reason to believe voter fraud is occurring.
A comprehensive study of more than 1 billion ballots cast in elections from 2000 to 2014 found just 31 credible allegations of voter impersonation fraud at the polls.
How do you check IDs for absentee ballots?
I found this: http://elections.wi.gov/sites/default/files/publication/137/absentee_overview_1_27_16_pdf_14821.pdf
At least in Wisconsin when you apply for the absentee ballot you provide the ID information so there is a check We vote absentee so that is what we had to do.
So where are we now since the evidence was brought out today with the hidden camera video af a democratic opperative admitting to voter fraud in Wisconsin FOR YEARS. How Clinton’s money finding it’s way to groups violently disrupting Trump rallies has now been exposed is another prime topic. How many dems and libs are hiding now? I know. TRUTH HURTS.
Hummm Please post a link to the video (evidence) that claims that a “democratic opperative” was a Democrat and what and how did he/she do their voter fraud? It would help the discussion if you included the details of the fraud so we all might be able to judge the evidence for ourselves. For sure the TRUTH HURTS but more importantly if needs to be the TRUTH and then as an old Sage said The TRUTH set us FREE and most unfortunately I do seek the TRUTH and while the Democrats are not saints on any lever the Republican “conservatives” are much worse. Peace
PS On the “paid operatives” where else did we see such actions Ah yes on the local meeting about the Affordable Care Act. That where we saw shouting and yelling and the rest.
Just found this Seems that this might be the the other part of the story or however it goes. But no voter fraud. Where did that come from? Peace Tom
O’Keefe has a history of publishing similar undercover videos, but he has gotten into hot water for his practices. In 2010, he pleaded guilty to a misdemeanor for posing as a phone repairman to enter then-Louisiana Sen. Mary Landrieu’s New Orleans office. In 2013, he settled a suit for $100,000 after editing a recording with an ACORN employee who later lost his job.
Past O’Keefe footage has also been found to contain manipulative editing to show an intended narrative, as the conservative website TheBlaze wrote.
Sen. Ted Cruz of Texas tweeted about the footage Tuesday afternoon, saying it showed Democratic presidential nominee Hillary Clinton’s “corruption” and “criminality … runs deep.”
In an interview with conservative radio host Mike Gallagher, Republican presidential
Not only does the guy misleadingly edit his videos, but James O’Keefe is a convicted felon. Conservatives would never fail to point that out if he were a liberal operative. Where in the video does the guy specifically admit to voter fraud? He doesn’t.
Also it’s impossible to rig a presidential election, so pipe down. https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/can-you-rig-a-us-presidential-election-experts-say-its-basically-impossible/2016/10/18/7bcc4390-9557-11e6-bc79-af1cd3d2984b_story.html?hpid=hp_hp-top-table-main_voterfraud-925pm%3Ahomepage%2Fstory
Voter fraud has been endemic in Milwaukee county for years, but DA, Journal refuse to research and/or prosecute. we exposed much of it to McCann but he felt that the Left, in charge, was God’s will, so did nothing unless it was done by the GOP.
The police report outlined the whole thing. This guy only confirms the police report. The Van Wanguard election, with buses from Ill. was the lasted big one. It is thousands of votes.
WCD Please Please present you voter fraud evidence here This paper will surely print it. I lived in Milwaukee for 33 years 1969 2002 and voted in every election and saw no fraud as we went from manual voting machines back to machine readable paper ballots. We know Voter ID is bogus and not sure outside of checking ballots which could be easily checked with very simple internal accounting there is no way. We should do this system wide not not on the sample basis that it is being done and with a full set of internal controls. While you are free to write and believe what you want that does not make it factual ie “Voter fraud has been endemic in Milwaukee County for years….” Making a false statement, other wise KNOWN as a LIE, is not TRUTHFUL (and used that word the other day) and does not make one creditable. Peace
A video from a guy who selectively edits his videos and is a convicted felon is proof positive for you that voter fraud is widespread despite mountains of evidence to the contrary. Yet you ignore or disbelieve far more convincing and credible evidence that voter ID laws suppress votes to help the GOP. People like you live in an entirely alternate reality. Somehow you, an old white wealthy male, imagine yourself and your party oppressed. It’s pathetic and laughable.
A great debt of gratitude to Project Veritas for bringing this to light. Corruption and illegality of this magnitude are frightening, and a genuine threat to the entire democracy. I give a lot of credit to the legislators who have been fighting for photo ID for voting, because they have obviously had information about the sophistication and Democratic funding of what we’re up against.
Wow that is some deplorable fear-mongering right there. Trump is wrong WashCoRepub as are you. There is no threat to democracy. Actually if there is it’s from Trump as he encourages his supporters to act as poll monitors in urban areas. Read or listen to actual election experts and not Trump or right-wing talk radio hosts. You are misinformed and misguided if you believe corruption and illegality threaten Trump and Republicans in this election.
Dear WashCoRepub Hi my name is Thomas Spellman. I do not know why people hide behind a handle or what ever they are called. If you have read any of the Federal Court decisions you would understand that Dem or Rep makes no difference the ID Law has not practical impact on voter fraud. The number of case prosecuted of voter impersonation are few if any. It keeps more citizens away from voting (which is the issues) and that include Republicans than it keeps folks who are voting in someone else’s name away from the voting. The legislation that we need is true accounting of the printed ballots compared to the final number of ballots cast and wasted and lost through absentee ballots not returned. These two sets of numbers must be the same. Also on all hotly contested races a hand counting of the ballots for the office as well. Yes that would be TRUTH that we can count on. Peace PS My mother worked the polls in Beaver Dam 30 or more years and unless there was an extremely long ballot she was home by midnight every election night. It took 4 hours to count and finalize the count all by hand.
Conservatives fawning over a convicted felon is repulsive. If a Dem operative/felon uncovered something with a hidden camera and subsequently selectively edited the video they’d give it no credence whatsoever. But one felon records one random Dem saying something stupid and it’s concrete proof of massive voter fraud? It would be laughed out of a courtroom. All you right-wingers totally ignored or downplayed Glenn Grothman admitting voter ID was designed to help the GOP in Wisconsin.
little factual information Ah TRUTH
By Mary Bottari |October 13th, 2016 at 10:57 AM (CDT)
Democracy, News, Wisconsin
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MADISON — A federal judge held a hearing Wednesday to determine if procedures put in place by Wisconsin Department of Motor Vehicles (DMV) to implement the state’s new voter ID law were sufficient to protect the right to vote.
The advocacy organization One Wisconsin Now was asking the judge to suspend the state’s voter ID law for the November election or at a minimum force the state to fix demonstrated problems with the voter ID petition process (IDPP), which is designed to help people who don’t have their birth certificates or other forms of ID acceptable under the state’s strict version of the American Legislative Exchange Council’s “model” law.
In a ten-minute oration on Wednesday, Judge Peterson blasted state officials:
“The state fell short of its obligations by September 22, the very date I was assured by the state that things were going smoothly that was plainly not the case,” Peterson said referencing a glowing 40 page report submitted by the Wisconsin Department of Justice. Further he said, “the problems were entirely predictable, the ID process was not understood by intended beneficiaries and the service provided by DMV was manifestly in adequate.”
“If I were a person that did not have the standard documentation I would be at a loss, the DMV website does not provide information. Even now if I went to DMV, I would be relying entirely on the assistance of the counter, no written hand out even now,” said Petersen. “The DMV might have a lot of competencies but communication with voters is not one of them.”
“For some reasons the state has separated the DMV and Wisconsin Elections Commission so vigorously the result is predictable. The elections commission could really help on this, but when you get to their website, they flip you over to the DMV website,” complained the judge.
Even though ex-GOP staffers testified in July that Wisconsin Senators were “giddy” at the prospects of using voter ID to suppress the vote of students and African-Americans in Wisconsin–some of the strongest testimony offered in the nation–Petersen hesitated to strike down Wisconsin’s voter ID in its entirety. Instead, he struck down early voting restrictions and a list of other hurdles to voting and ordered that IDPP voting receipts be issued “promptly” to those seeking them.
BIG PROBLEMS AT THE DEPARTMENT OF MOTOR VEHICLES
In July, Peterson struck down Wisconsin’s early voting restrictions allowing cities and towns to reopen early voting stations. At the same time, Peterson said the IDPP was “unconstitutional” and a “wretched failure” ordering that it quickly be brought up to snuff.
But that did not happen.
“We are a month from an election and still something as simple as a one-page handout is not available to the citizens of the state,” said the exasperated judge on Wednesday.
The problems with IDPP were revealed by Ari Berman of the Nation on September 29. Berman, an author and expert in voting rights was in Madison for a book reading sponsored by the Center for Media and Democracy. He acquired tapes from voting rights advocates Vote Riders demonstrating huge problems at the Wisconsin DMV.
The tapes made by Vote Riders showed that voters were repeatedly being given incorrect information at the DMV as they attempted to obtain identification that could be used for voting. Berman’s story featured an African-American man named Zach Moore who brought his Illinois photo ID, Social Security card, and a pay stub as proof of residence, but was turned away without the voting receipt Peterson ordered to be promptly provided.
Berman’s follow up article October 11 featured a naturalized citizen and a Wisconsin state worker, who had a driver’s license from Illinois, a Social Security card and a marriage certificate and who had been voting in Wisconsin for years but could not obtain her naturalization papers from the federal government to prove she was a citizen in item for the November election even if she wanted to spend $345 to get them.
Judge Peterson said on Wednesday, “the DMV might have many competencies but working with voters is not one of them.” Peterson also questioned why the entire voter process had been effectively divorced from the Wisconsin Elections Commission and handed over to Walker’s Department of Transportation.
VOTE RIDERS TAKES THE STAND, CITY CLERKS REVEAL OTHER PROBLEMS
The judge’s frustration echoed those of advocates working hard to educate voters about the new requirements.
Molly McGrath, the Vote Riders advocate who provided the tapes to Berman, took the stand.
She explained that she often encounters voters at food pantries and in church food lines. These people are not likely to have the computers or the knowledge to be able to find the minimal information provided on the DMV website for the IDPP program. Nor were they likely to be reached by the state’s anemic and not very specific ad campaign.
McGrath had been working full time on helping people exercise the right to vote since last December, yet she did not herself understand what constituted acceptable ID for the IDPP program: “I don’t know how to do my job, I don’t know what to tell voters and I can’t go with them every time to make sure they get the proper service.”
Equally concerning was the testimony of the Madison City Clerk and the Milwaukee City Clerk who testified that they were getting a significant number of absentee ballot applications without the proper voter identification documents attached.
In Madison, the clerk attempted to call hundreds of voters who failed to send in identification, yet 355 who were contacted still failed to get in proper identification. In Milwaukee the situation was worse. The Milwaukee clerk estimated that 150 voters who sent in ballot applications indicated they did not have the required ID at all, an estimated 1-2 percent.
In Madison, the Center for Media and Democracy received a complaint from a Democrat who received an absentee ballot application from the Wisconsin Republican Party that references “voter ID instructions” twice but contain no instructions on how to send in the identification that is required with a ballot application. If millions of these absentee ballot applications are being sent, problems in the clerk’s office are sure to multiply.
WISCONSIN ELECTIONS COMMISSIONERS REVOLT
Wednesday’s hearing was prefaced by dramatic developments at the state’s brand new elections commission created after the Wisconsin GOP dismantled the fully independent Government Accountability Board which helped launch an investigation of Governor Walker and dark money groups known as the John Doe.
Wisconsin Elections Commission Chairman Mark Thomsen and vice-chairwoman Ann Jacobs, attempted to file a report with the court constituting their views on how the IDPP program was running, but the Wisconsin Department of Justice (DOJ) failed to file their report with the court, forcing the duo to file it themselves and ask the judge to appoint new attorney’s to represent them.
In a letter to Peterson, Thomsen and Jacobs pointed out a multitude of problems with the IDPP program. The duo also told the court that Walker’s DOJ was usurping the activities of the Wisconsin Election Commission, improperly attempting to make the administrator a tool of the partisan DOJ.
When commissioner Ann Jacobs took the stand, she faced hostile questioning from DOJ attorneys who wanted to know why she didn’t call an emergency meeting or pursue other options. She responded “I didn’t view an order from a federal court as optional.”
A SLOW MOTION TRAIN WRECK
For their part, Wisconsin DOJ attorneys argued that reports of difficulties with the IDPP were exaggerated. Under the gun, the DOJ sent in undercover state troopers to test the system and said it had recently retrained DMV workers. But the judge said that the troopers did “not present hard cases.”
After a day in court, Peterson demanded that the parties return Thursday to further discuss an action plan so the state can demonstrate it is taking the judge’s order seriously.
But Peterson is blowing the whistle on a slow-motion train wreck when the brakes need to be applied. Already 1-2 percent of voters in Milwaukee are being disenfranchised, that number is sure to grow.
Voter ID bills were created to make voting more difficult. After Indiana’s bill was held to be constitutional, a “model” voter ID bill was taken up by the American Legislative Exchange Council in 2009 and spread like wildfire in Republican-controlled legislatures. In state after state, GOP politicians admitted that their goal was to influence elections and make it more difficult for certain constituencies to vote.
The advocacy organization One Wisconsin Now brought the Wisconsin lawsuit against a multitude of voter restriction measures put in place by the Wisconsin GOP.
“We made a pretty complete case that legal voters were denied access to the franchise,” said Executive Director Scot Ross after today’s hearing. “It’s abundantly clear that Governor Walker is unable or unwilling to follow the law as described in the judge’s order.”
It’s time for Petersen take the next step and toss out Wisconsin’s voter ID law.
Dave Weigel, who has covered O’Keefe and the conservative movement for years, debunks the videos and notes problematic editing. There’s also a transcript that shows Project Veritas left out information that goes against their agenda. Of course they also admit that they don’t post or share videos in their entirety. https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/post-politics/wp/2016/10/19/two-democratic-operatives-lose-jobs-after-james-okeefe-sting/?hpid=hp_hp-top-table-main_sting-1050a%3Ahomepage%2Fstory
Listening to that anti-American traitor (that’s not invective, I mean it literally) Scott Foval spew his garbage makes my nearly physically ill. “We’ve been doing this for fifty years and we’re not about to stop now!”
Men like that need to be STOPPED and marginalized. On both sides. Immediately.
I hope individuals like that truly understand the risks they are undertaking with this entire country, because it’s not worth it. If people lose faith in the election system, in the Democratic system, then they look at other options. The consequences of that are terrifying.
Those trying to debunk the videos are rally funny.
Does that make Trump a traitor for being friendly with Putin? The GOP as recently as 2013 bashed Obama for not being hard enough on Putin/Russia. Trump’s behavior sure seems traitorous in that context. What say you WashCoRepub?
You and WCD need to read the Washington Post story. The videos have been selectively edited.
What’s REALLY funny is people defending the videos without accurate and comprehensive information.
Not to mention Trump encouraging his supporters to “monitor” polling places in certain neighborhoods, which is calling for voter intimidation. That is definitely traitorous.
Just thinking logically here… but if it’s not actually the ID’s causing people not to vote and instead it’s the confusion about what is required… why don’t voter ID opponents stop w/ the lawsuits and faux outrage that confuses people and instead focus on helping people get ID’s that need them?
The number of voting-eligible people that lack proper identification is so minuscule, this shouldn’t be an issue.
AG have you ever experienced difficulty getting an ID?
Thankfully not! But, I know for some it can be very challenging. That was kind of my point. Instead of wasting all these resources squabbling about policy choices, we could be using these resources to help people who don’t have valid identification to get it. Voting aside, a reason I like the voter ID laws is because it has the bi-product of helping a lot of people who don’t have ID’s to get them for free or low cost (with help to boot!). This is especially important because lack of valid ID is a very large barrier to getting out of poverty.
Instead of whining back and forth about two problems that are far smaller than many people make them out to be, we could be seeing the advantage to these laws.
The problem is much bigger than you make it out to be. It’s hardly a matter of a few dozen voters being impacted here AG. 1.3 million people in 12 states is hardly small. Quite the contrary. http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2016/02/20/voter-suppression-could-stop-1-3-million-from-voting-in-swing-states.html
So the voter ID law designed to help the GOP in Wisconsin (as Glenn Grothman himself said) was the only way to help the people you reference?
It’s really nice to hear the constant denial of the lefties here when the truth comes out about voter fraud. The still can’t believe it happens and their part is the ones to blame for it. But when they can’t prove voter suppression by any means all they can do is “wish” it were true. The party of Hillary “the Liar” Clinton always quick to deny any wrong doing, never taking the time to actually look into things themselves and see the truth about what their party does to win. You people are a joke.
Hey remember the Shorewood man who was convicted of voter fraud recently? He’s a Republican, and he got caught. Voter impersonation hardly ever happens (people are struck by lightning more frequently) and when it does people get caught. A doctored video is not the truth. Say it a thousand times.
PMD, did you read that article? 1.3 million people are not going to be prevented from voting because of various voter ID laws, let alone in Wisconsin.
I have seen very few credible cases go public where someone really did have a valid claim on not getting an ID issued. This doesn’t mean poorly trained DMV workers aren’t an issue, but that is pretty fixable. The Milwaukee voter fraud report showed me far more suspicious voting problems than I’ve seen during the entire voter ID debate.
That you, someone who has never had a problem getting an ID, haven’t seen many credible cases proves absolutely nothing AG. You are one of those people who for some reason fail to acknowledge the existence of a problem simply because said problem has never been one for you personally.
I literally laughed out loud. That is nearly the same line being used for people who keep denying voter fraud exists.
At least I acknowledge there is indeed challenges for some people to get ID’s and we need to help them. I think you guys actually believe there were only 31 cases of voter fraud.
Wow literally? But I never said voter fraud doesn’t exist. It’s incredibly rare, and when it does happen (like with the aforementioned guy in Shorewood), it gets caught. You guys ignore or dismiss countless studies and investigations that show how incredibly rare it is and insist it’s a problem. So who’s in more denial really? A Trump surrogate in Pennsylvania just this morning said voter fraud is widespread in Philadelphia. He admitted he has no proof and acknowledged he has no idea how widespread, he just knows. That’s really compelling evidence right there.
Politifact calculated in 2015 that you are 13 times more likely to be struck by lightning than to stumble across an instance of in-person voter fraud in Texas.
Meanwhile, strict voter ID laws in the state led to Democratic turnout drops of 8.8 percentage points in general elections and even Republican turnout drops by 3.6 points.
PMD, what is your definition of rare? In the Milwaukee PD investigation, they looked at just a sample of voters from the 2004 election and found 16 definitive cases of voter fraud (among hundreds, perhaps thousands of suspected voter fraud) but almost none were prosecuted because the record keeping and voter registration process was so bad they juries couldn’t convict without a reasonable doubt. If just a sample of Milwaukee’s voting had 16, or hundreds, or THOUSANDS of fraudulent or ineligible voters then how much does this occur country wide?
You keep holding on to your 31 cases idea. Meanwhile, I’ll recognize the error in logic that if you can’t prove something with the current system, you can use the current system to demonstrate something doesn’t happen.
“Meanwhile, strict voter ID laws in the state led to Democratic turnout drops of 8.8 percentage points in general elections and even Republican turnout drops by 3.6 points.”
The authors of the working paper (grey literature) that came up with those numbers readily said that their data showed no evidence of causation that the voter ID laws caused the drop. But it makes for a great talking point though.
There could be millions of fraudulent votes nationwide? You sound like Trump.
-In Philadelphia on Monday, Republican election commissioner Al Schmidt dismissed the idea that election fraud could take place in the nation’s fifth-largest city. “The real threat to the integrity of elections is irresponsible accusations that undermine confidence in the electoral process,” he said.
I know we’ll never agree about this issue, so shifting gears, do you think if Trump loses it will be because the election is rigged?
Ugh… that’s just mean.
You got me off on a tangent about voter fraud. I don’t actually think it’s changing elections usually. But nor do I wear blinders about it.
Regardless, I think voter ID laws can generally be quite reasonable, especially when we provide resources for those who struggle to get an ID. In addition, the benefits of people obtaining a valid ID has a much higher potential impact than any of this voting fraud or voting disenfranchise crap that is blown way out of proportion by both sides.
God no… when he loses, and there’s enough faith in humanity left in me to believe he will, it will be based solely on the fact he is an embarrassment to himself and the Republican party. Even if many of the 2/3’s of republicans that voted against him in the primaries still feel compelled to vote for him for things like SCOTUS and fear of Hillary… you’re still going to have a large chunk who will abstain or vote 3rd party.
That doesn’t answer the question. You also didn’t answer an earlier question about whether the voter ID law was the only way to help the people you claim it helps. I’ve never experienced a problem getting an ID but I don’t dismiss or belittle those who do experience problems or think it’s not a real problem. You’re pretty young AG and a lot of people who experience problems getting an ID are much older. Maybe since you’ve never experienced disenfranchisement you’d benefit from talking to people who have.
Which question didn’t that answer?
Regarding the earlier question. Is it possible to help in another way? Yes. But good luck getting it to happen. This is practically gift wrapped and left at our doorstep ready to go. In politics making something happen is extremely difficult, so I take it as a win.
Also, can you point out where I dismiss or belittle those who do experience problems getting a valid ID or where I said it’s not a real problem?
The Left has practiced voter fraud since Tamany Hall taught them. They believe that the Left is endowed by God, though they do not believe in God, to run the country so anything they do is fine. if you do not think that is true, read the Police Report.
There have not been any prosecutions cause the DA protects them no matter what.
The left doesn’t believe in god but thinks god told them to rig elections? Where do you come up with this stuff?
“voting disenfranchise crap that is blown way out of proportion” is representative of your dismissive comments on this issue. I think it’s callous for someone who’s never experienced disenfranchisement to make comments like that.
Nate Silver crunched the numbers in 2012 and concluded that voter ID laws “seem to decrease turnout by about 2 percent as a share of the registered voter population.” That’s 3 million people. http://fivethirtyeight.com/features/measuring-the-effects-of-voter-identification-laws/
PMD, Nate Silver pretty much said exactly what I’m saying… that it can be an issue, but not nearly as serious as opponenets of ID laws are claiming. The ruckus is mostly about trying to rally people to their cause and vote democrat then it is them actually being worried about someone who can’t get an ID. So yes, I see msot of the arguments about both voter fraud and ID disenfranchisement to be crap. Not for a person finding challenges getting an ID, but the reasons and rationality behind the complaints are crap.
Yes political parties engage in hyperbole and Silver acknowledges that some fears might be overblown, but he also states that 2 percent is meaningful. Because it is. Three million is a lot of people. Now I have to go because I got a message from god telling me to rig the election. Lots to do in 19 days.
Now that the video of Fogal is out how much is going to be spread to try and discredit it? Its real and tells all. So dont tell me crap like this is not true. Bot of course you cant admit this happens. It would discredit your own beliefs over a party you thought was so honest and trustworthy and better than any one else. Clintons couldnt be involved here. Its just not true. Tell me it isnt so.
Why wouldn’t people be skeptical? O’Keefe and Project Veritas edit all of their videos and refuse to share unedited versions and O’Keefe is a convicted felon. Every thinking person should be skeptical. And the Weigel story notes that like all Project Veritas videos this one has been selectively edited while at the same time offering no proof that any voter fraud took place.
I was wondering what kind of TOTALLY LAME excuses SOME libs (just SOME, because admittedly there are a decent # of intelligent people who for some reason or I suppose self-serving reasons, who IF they watch the videos and give a damn if their party of choice really is selling out the rest of the citizens (as well as the many undocumented people the DEMOCRATS cajole into voting ILLEGALLY) and for lack of a better term, pissing all over the US Constitution and Amendments 1-10 aka the Bill of Rights, as well as all of the men and women who’ve laid down their lives to preserve this union that many in the world can only dream of having been simply born into, those INTELLIGENT libs who aren’t so corrupted as to be perfectly willing to risk tossing away all that has been given to us by birthplace will see and admit to themselves that O’Keefe, love or hate him (yeah, I know you HATE him!) will say, of they have any sort of conscience, take pride in being at least generally honest people and of course, have a functioning brain, they’ll admit has these people dead to rights!
What the hell kind of editing tricks, short of something just obviously TOTALLY chopped up, like to the point of constructing all new statements out whole cloth, is going to go into the ridiculously deep details that NOW-FIRED FOVAL (WAIT!! WHY FIRE SUCH AN OBVIOUSLY DEDICATED, LONG TIME PRO IF THIS IS ALL BULLSHIT??? RIDDLE ME THAT ONE HANNDY!!!) how do you “cleverly edit” Foval or the many others into talking about how HERE IN WISCONSIN THE RENTAL CARS RARELY HAVE WI PLATES?? HEY THAT’S TRUE!!! CLEVER EDITING?? COME ON, PLUG IN YOUR BRAIN AND FACE THE FACTS THIS TIME, BUSTED RED HANDED!!!!
The ridiculously biased media (hmmm, I wonder if the ridiculous bias in the coverage in the 2014 WI Gov race here was a dry run for taking former bias and making it all in, throw the textbook out the window non-journalism joke coverage!!) just ignores, ignores, BUT other than in the insulated world of libs who only talk to libs, you’ll find an OVERWHELMING # of people, even some still who claim not to want to vote for Trump thanks to the over-hyped “pussy” video-or audio-hey we never even saw Trump say that! Where’s your outrage there? That “pussy tape” since there’s just audio could’ve been distorted or faked 100x more easily than the Veritas tapes and you don’t say SHIT! That’s because one of the many slang meanings of the word “pussy” fits you well, not the meaning Trump said he could grab, but the one meaning a very wimpy, spineless guy who won’t stand up for the truth or anyone else if there’s ANY danger to himself, well that’s YOU!!
Best of all, if she scams her way in using the methods we ALL KNEW Dems have used for years, even if that slimy criminal wins, SHE IS NOW PERMANENTLY TAINTED AND BELONGS IN PRISON!!!
BT, if all that is true then why not release the tapes without editing?
Instead of constructing an elaborate and nonsensical conspiracy theory, maybe the tapes are just garbage because they’ve been manipulated so much.
What’s more likely?
Ahhh, I have a pretty simple answer on that one for you, who exactly IS the audience for these tapes? Is it the people mainly on the right who know damn well this crap is going on, but don’t have an in the bag media who goes to EXTREME links to “investigate” (or more like find any weak reason to validate) ANY dirt on a candidate either on the right or just one who’s not part of the “club”, the “establishment” like Trump, while just burying ANYTHING no matter how damming it is, about any of their beloved left wing idols. No, we’re NOT his main target audience, we’re more like the secondary audience and purpose is to keep us fired up while the “pussy almost video” is aired for the 376,634th time and we’re told DONT EVEN LOOK AT THOSE WIKILEAKS EMAILS, THAT’S ILLEGAL! WE’LL LOOK AND LET YOU KNOW, HONEST! Huh, never heard that one when WikiLeaks dropped those State Dept CABLES, not just private, non classified campaign emails. Wouldn’t you think if anything’s illegal to view in their insane world it’s the cables not the intenal campaign emails?? Oh that’s right, cables made BUSH 43 look bad, ahhh there’s your dividing line!
Target audience is certainly not all of you fools looking to elect a Walmart and other huge corporations owned Killary and willing to make yourselves look like fools as you contort to deny their validity.
Target audience #1 is those who have no clue, thanks to the joke media, just how terrible of a person the awful DEM candidate is, so do you think that group, who likely includes Kardashian show fans and who knows who else, is going to sit through the endless hours of video on this? Of course not and don’t tell me any other hit job crap released to smear Trump (since Killary has a record of disaster, no likeability and sold out to Wall St and Big Everything, oh and that quickly ignored bit about flat out STEALING the primary-how the hell didn’t Bernie win? He draws 5,000 and she draws 50, but oh she wins again! Wow, what a shocker!
Keep trying to come up with these laughably bad excuses, your big problem is O’Keefe not only brought down the entire ACORN in ONE SHOT HIS FIRST TIME OUT (they were supposed to HUGE by now! He took em out completely!) and has had EIGHT YEARS of attacks coming from EVERY ANGLE, so you know damn well if he’s dropping a bomb this big, he’s going to make damn sure he’s got EVERYTHING, EVERY POSSIBLE ANGLE COVERED and he did!
VOTE FRAUD IS HERE, PROVEN AND CONVICTED! If you’d like to continue with the stupid exfuses, please do! I love laughing so hard!!!
Does anyone actually read those posts? Who sees excessive use of all caps and exclamation points and thinks “now this is someone I need to take seriously?” It’s the equivalent of a toddler’s nonsensical tantrum.
I forgot to ask, did you even watch the entire PREVIEW (he’s got more to come! It’s not even over yet!) No clue if that means 4 more or 40, but even just in the previews, how the hell can you tell me when these scumbags are talking about rental cars, but problem is the non-WI plates, GOING TO CAR AUCTIONS, SHELL COMPANIES, DAILY CONTACT WITH THE CAMPAIGN, HOW CAN YOU EVEN START TO MAKE EXCUSES WITHOUT FEELING LIKE A TOTAL PAWN???
Oh sure, because KILLARY supports YOUR views, right? You believe in the unchecked power of firms like Goldman Sachs, able to just “regulate themselves” since they’re SO HONEST??? KILLARY DOES!!! Time to go to WalMart and buy your winter wardrobe, they own Killary too, Mr I LOVE INTERNATIONAL CONGLOMERATES!!! Oh, you don’t love them? Then why the hell are you supporting her?
Notice that Project Veritas wants to cooperate with Schimel but will only do so if they don’t have to release the videos unedited. I wonder why that is?
So, I just finally watched one of the video’s now. I’m a skeptic by nature, so I think there’s definitely editing being done. That being said, there’s still very clear, damning stuff.
For example, Foval says, “It’s a very easy thing for Republicans to say, well they’re bussing people in. Well you know what? We’ve been bussing people in to deal with you [f-word]ing [a word]holes for fifty years and we’re not going to stop now, we’re just going to find a different way to do it.”
Could this be talking about protestors? Maybe.
Then there’s a cut, but when you return it appears to be in the same conversation around the same time. Could this be creative editing? Maybe, but it does at least make logical sense to match up to be on the same topic while also being pretty awful by itself.
Foval continues, “Are they going to charge each individual of oter fraud? Or are they going to go after the facilitator for conspiracy which they could prove? It’s one thing if all these people drive up in their personal cars. If there’s a bus involved? That changes the dynamic.”
I wouldn’t put anything past the guy who said (in a completely different conversation), “…and myself are all part of the old school method, it doesn’t matter what the legal and ethics people say, we need to win this mother [f-word]er.”
The conversation from the earlier comments goes on to talk about how to hide that these people are “bussed” in but doesn’t make it clear if it’s about protesting or voter fraud. However, they do talk about about registering voters under bad addresses and avoiding investigations and whatnot. Not sure what it’s connected to without a doubt either… but we know it’s something no good.
The video isn’t conclusive about voter fraud, but there’s clearly corruption going on. Do you guys who denounce the video’s deny that?
Corruption going on or corruption talked about? As Weigel mentions it’s possible the guy is boasting (or as the JS calls it “barroom banter”) and totally full of it. I’m not saying Schimel shouldn’t look into it, but if Project Veritas refuses to release the full videos (as they have said they won’t do even if Schimel wants them), reasonable people should at the very least be extremely skeptical.
What happens when primarily white folks see a bus wit many primarily black folks stop at city hall and all go in during early voting and come out a half hour later and get on the bus. Yes what is going on? Well it is a church group might say so on the side of the bus that is talking folks who for whatever their reasons are choosing to vote early and vote with their church group. Yes churches in the suburbs do not bus folks to the vote and again for a number of reasons.
It is beyond absurd to assume that a bus with many black folks would be “bused” in another city to vote. Today it takes being registered (can do it at the poll with the right materials) AND also a voter ID that must be obtained at one of 90 MVD offices where as you register to vote in over 300 village town city clerks offices. How would all those people have all the information to vote if they were not registered and have ID’s?
It is time to be a little introspective and not jump to conclusion. A year ago I was talking to an elderly woman who was positive she was seeing voter fraud because she saw a bus parked at city hall.
Unfortunately providing the “rest of the story” is not enough for some folks who “know” Peace Tom
Weigel wrote about this again to note how quiet and cautious Walker is being about this. He’s mentioned shipping in protesters to events (which both parties do regularly) but not voter fraud. https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/post-politics/wp/2016/10/19/scott-walker-other-republicans-tread-lightly-on-okeefe-video-sting/
From the story:
-That cut ends, and the narration about voter fraud continues. But without seeing what happened before the “busing” quote, it’s not 100 percent clear he’s talking about voter fraud.
-Later parts of the conversation more directly touch on how easy it would be to obtain the addresses and IDs needed to vote. But the quick cuts make it unclear whether Foval is talking about a plan or a theory.
-If Foval was describing voter fraud, it would indeed be massive. But his phrasing — “implement a massive change in state legislatures and in Congress” — is curious. The cost of what’s being pitched, including the purchase of cars for enough fraudulent voters to create a “massive change” in votes, is barely discussed. And the two other interviews included in the video, with Democracy Partners’s Bob Creamer and Dreamer activist Cesar Vargas, never get into these details.
-Today, while the “voter fraud” claim has ignited social media, few Republicans who are in positions to act are talking about it.
Taken together, everyone should be highly skeptical of these videos of not downright dismissive, especially if Project Veritas doesn’t release the full videos.
That’s fairly similar to my line of thinking. There’s no definitive proof they committed large scale voter fraud… but it’s pretty clear they have done and are willing to do very shady/corrupt things. I too would like to see more of the video’s and the raw footage.