The Contrarian

The Real “Gun Nuts”

Not the gun owners, but the gun control zealots.

By - Feb 26th, 2018 01:47 pm
Smith & Wesson MP pistol

Smith & Wesson MP pistol

The stress-relieving aspect of not being on Twitter and Facebook — I signed off a year ago — is never more evident than in the wake of a mass shooting. “Gun control” clearly is the high-profile issue about which otherwise sensible people are completely ignorant.

To prove the point, pistol owners should try this experiment, one that I plan to use with a group of guys who gather each morning at my neighborhood Starbucks.

Tell them you own a “semi-automatic assault weapon.” Watch their eyebrows raise and their jaws drop. Then show them a picture of your weapon — in my case a Smith & Wesson MP pistol (see picture).

Clearly, it’s an “assault” weapon, as it could be used in self-defense to assault an attacker. Just as clearly, it’s “semi-automatic,” as a round is automatically chambered after each trigger pull.

When I used to be on FB and Twitter I fell into the trap of responding to “friends” or “followers” who made knee-jerk calls to ban “assault” and/or “semi-automatic” weapons following a tragedy such as occurred earlier this month in Florida.

Asked to define what they would ban, the typical response was a picture of an AR-15, accompanied by an assertion such as “No one needs a machine gun!” I found it did little good to describe current laws that heavily regulate ownership of a fully automatic weapon, i.e., a “machine gun.” And of course I endured full mockery after explaining that an AR-15 is but a rifle where a round is chambered after each trigger pull. (How would the debate play out if AR-15s looked more like a traditional rifle?)

Just for discussion, say AR-15s were banned and existing confiscated from lawful owners. With a little practice, an unbalanced person such as the Florida perpetrator could become proficient, with a pistol such as mine, at discharging 100 or more rounds in less than 5 minutes. It’s easy with practice to discard and reload a 20-round clip in less than 10 seconds.

When confronted with those facts, some honest gun controllers will ‘fess up and say they’d really like to ban guns, period. Some will take the logical next step and advocate confiscation of guns now lawfully owned.

A social media “discussion” with gun controllers is never complete without chest-thumping assaults on the NRA. At my local gun club I have taken six courses, in addition to an eight-hour concealed carry session, from NRA-authorized instructors. These are some of the straightest shooters, so to speak, that I’ve ever encountered. Down-to-earth. Relentless emphasis on safety, safety, and then more safety. People in the classes I’ve taken likewise are as threatening as your grandmother.

While I’ve put Twitter and FB in my past, it’s tough to escape the ignorant, media-enabled narrative that crowds out real news after an event such as the Florida shooting. It’s clear that the bulk of the sign-carrying students personify the fundamental ignorance of firearms that drives the media narrative.

I found it interesting and encouraging that President Trump presided over a useful discussion of the issues that included participants with views across a broad spectrum. Too bad that is likely to be the exception to the rule.

91 thoughts on “The Contrarian: The Real “Gun Nuts””

  1. Adam says:

    Blah, blah, blah.

    The U.S has 50% of the world’s civilian-owned guns despite having 4% of its population. The U.S also has and the most mass shootings and gun violence of any developed nation. But there is no connection between these two facts, got it. The giant white elephant is not actually in the room!

  2. Patrick says:

    Thank you for this, I couldn’t agree more!!! It is always the knee jerk reaction to blame guns and mental illness, they’re easy targets. America has been normalizing death since at least the Vietnam War. Images of death have been pumped through the media and made easily accessible via the internet. I could go online and watch someone get murdered if I wanted to. Video games perpetuate horrible content and parents are often the dealers. There is little to no realization of the consequences until these kids commit an action and are held accountable for them. Not everyone has the mental capacity to distinguish between fantasy and reality. Unfortunately, there is no check box for that on the background check forms. There are no victims, no candle light vigils, no trials…etc in video games. We’ve become numb to the images of death to the point that we don’t realize there are consequence associated with them.

  3. Adam says:


    Of course what you say is true about normalizing shooting and death, but the internet and video games is widely available in the rest of the world. So again, what is unique in the US other than easy access to guns coupled with a gun culture where a parent can take their 12 year old daughter to the firing range to squeeze of some rounds with an Uzzi, without having to feel public shame or ridicule. (Referencing the poor girl who shot her instructor because she couldn’t handle the weapon)

  4. Old Man Yells at Cloud says:

    Eh, pretty weak argument that simply rehashes “if we ban guns people will kill each other with *insert weapon here*”. Then we follow it up with the old standard “it’s the video games!” with the second comment.

    I’m sure the people you used to interact with online don’t miss your mansplaining. The technical or non-technical names for these weapons whether it be machine gun, assault rifle, or murderous bullet hose, does not change their intended use (killing) nor should it give you a kick for winning arguments on a technicality.

    Who actually thinks your crappy pistol could perform as well at killing people than an ar-15? Range, velocity, accuracy, rate of fire all favor the ar-15. Not to mention the shooter will experience more fatigue with the pistol. I mean, there’s a reason pistols aren’t primary weapons for the armed forces.

  5. tom says:

    All assault weapon and gun advocates please explain why USA is an extreme outlier on gun deaths. While you are at it please explain why Australia’s mass shootings are non-existent since banning assault weapons. Do not bother me with mental health arguments or access to violent videos because those arguments do not hold up. I’m waiting….

  6. happyjack27 says:

    I guess the 97% of Americans who want sensible gun policy are “nuts”,


  7. Troll says:

    Everyday high school young adults in the Milwaukee area have to sit next to a student wearing a monitored leg bracelet. More than likely, any case brought to the County the first charge thrown out is the gun charge. We have all these gun laws and there not enforced. The law abiding NRA wants them enforced the County DA does not. This morning on the north side of Milwaukee a would be car jacker attempted to attack a gun carrying car owner and lost his life. These events are tragic but may deter future attacks.

  8. Happyjack says:

    “We have all these gun laws and they are not enforced.”

    What are they?

    Please enlighten us.

  9. Happyjack says:

    Okay I read the article. Let me summarize:

    * The author doesn’t like social media.
    * despite what he considers advanced training, random strangers have a clearer understanding than him about what constitutes an “assault weapon”
    * he recognized that even guns that are not assault rifles can be very dangerous in the wrong hands
    * he doesn’t like social media.

  10. Troll says:

    If your a Felon and you use a fire arm in a crime and your caught. It is generally the first penalty dropped.

  11. Happyjack says:

    That you are a felon or that you used a gun or that it was in a crime or that you were caught?

    “It” refers to what?

  12. PMD says:

    Because his firearms instructors are nice, the real gun nuts are people who advocate for more gun control? I am sold. That’s the most thoughtful, convincing, and fact-based pro-gun argument I have ever read. Thank you Urban Milwaukee for publishing such outstanding writing. Gun nuts attacking Parkland survivors is fake news.

  13. Happyjack says:

    I guese i didnt even see anyone even say that gun instructors were nice…

    Commenting on the wrong article?

  14. Happyjack says:

    To be clear, this is urban Milwaukee’s -lame- attempt to be “middle-ground”. You want to be middle ground? Facts are middle ground. Truth is middle ground. Reality is middle ground. When did the frickin news become “PoMo”?!

    Grow some hidden backbone!

  15. Happyjack says:

    *hidden = god damn

    Damn you spellcheck!

  16. Happyjack says:

    I mean I’m sorry, author of this article, but urban Milwaukee really did you a disservice by publishing this article along with your name on it.

    I mean I don’t even have to speak – like I said 97% of Americans want sensible gun laws- i’m just asking you – as part of the presumably same 3%, to consider the actual known statistics about gun oenwrsgio, gun deaths, etc. And perhaps – yes, definitely – the fact that America has by far the most guns per person and also by far the most guns deaths per person. So how can you presume to even suggest guns reduce gun deaths – when the very country that you live in show s the exact opposite! And to no small measure, but to an extreme!

  17. PMD says:

    Wake up, check the news, and oh look at that more NRA members are calling the Parkland survivors crisis actors and phonies. But yes gun control advocates are the nuts. In other news Donald Trump would for sure run at a gunman unarmed.

  18. PMD says:

    We have an opioid problem. Opioids are everywhere. They are hurting people and killing people. What should we do? Easy. We need more opioids. That’s the only way to reduce opioids hurting and killing people, more of them.


    Yesterday’s car jacking story likely will keep the topic alive on a local level.

  20. max says:

    God: “Thou shalt not kill”
    GOP/Mitchell: “Oh yes we will, and we’ll make sure that latest means of killing are available to anyone, anywhere, anytime”.

  21. Adam says:

    @PMD #18

    Comment of the day. Spot on!

  22. ERIC J. says:

    “It’s clear that the bulk of the sign-carrying students personify the fundamental ignorance of firearms that drives the media narrative.”
    -No George -It’s clear they have witnessed their friends shot down in an educational setting and they want something to be done about. They aren’t going to be convinced that ” guns don’t kill, people kill people”.
    -Maybe you can argue the Second Amendment right to allow me to buy an RPG launcher.It’s just a glorified rifle.
    ” Guns don’t kill people ” Right ??

  23. Rita says:

    “The fact that America has by far the most guns per person and also by far the most guns deaths per person. So how can you presume to even suggest guns reduce gun deaths – when the very country that you live in shows the exact opposite! ”
    I agree with this quote from “HappyJack”.
    Until we address “the elephant in the room”-GUNS- nothing witll happen.
    And..happy to hear companies are distancing themselves by not offering discounts to NRA members. Why the heck did they get discounts to begin with???
    I see 2 positives here: hit the NRA in their pocketbook; and kudos to the kids who are becoming activists in our country…maybe they will lead the way…and they are our future leaders…they will get a long term lesson in civics (because any solution will be “long term”- meaning it will take a long time to solve…)

  24. daniel golden says:

    Even Justice Scalia, radical right wing reactionary that he was, wrote in the Heller decision, which is the current basis for the individual right to own guns in this nation, that regulating and even banning dangerous and unusual weapons would not defeat the basic 2nd amendment right to bear arms. The experiences of other nations which have regulated firearms in a meaningful way are instructive: Almost none of this horrific slaughter of innocents occurs. For every tale of a firearm used properly, there are many more of accidental discharges, criminal homicides, and angry gun nuts mowing down people for the sheer hell of it. If someone slips and falls on an icy sidewalk no one argues we need more ice on sidewalks. if someone becomes ill from food poisoning, no one argues we need more tainted food. Yet we still are subject to the irrational nonsense that more guns make us safer on a daily basis, Look at Australia for a start: All civilian guns are long guns of a magazine capacity of 5 rounds or less. They are to be used for home defense, hunting or target shooting only. Pay for the confiscation of all non -conforming weapons on a fair market basis. I am certain that if we did this the mass shootings in this nation would than parallel the number in Australia on a yearly basis — exactly zero.

  25. Huck L. Berry says:

    @PMD “We need more opioids.”

    Really? Taking opiates is enshrined in our Constitution? This is has to be one of the dumbest things I’ve read from a gun grabber.

  26. Huck L. Berry says:


    “All assault weapon and gun advocates please explain why USA is an extreme outlier on gun deaths.”

    Nobody is advocating for assault weapons. Definitions matter if you want a seat at the big boy table.

    “While you are at it please explain why Australia’s mass shootings…”

    No. You don’t get to compare our gun laws to another country’s, but then cry foul when conservatives try to compare our nation’s immigration laws to another.

  27. Huck L. Berry says:

    If you want to confiscate guns, you need to compromise and give something up in return. For example:

    — Democrats could agree to deport (10) illegal aliens for every scary black assault weapon turned-in.
    — Democrats could agree to give up infanticide in exchange for machine guns
    — Democrats could give up their war on white men (aka affirmative action aka diversity aka multi-culturalism aka white genocide) in exchange for semi automatic rifles.

  28. PMD says:

    Good points daniel golden. Gun nuts are always ranting & raving about people wanting to take everyone’s guns when that isn’t the case. No one is calling for taking away everyone’s guns. It’s a good diversion tactic though. They have been using it for many years now.

  29. PMD says:

    OK we get it. You are a parody poster pointing out the nuttiness of right-wing loons. We get it. It’s very good.


    Huck…Especially good point on infanticide.

  31. PMD says:

    What and not the war on white men George? You haven’t been a victim of that?

  32. Adam says:

    Huck #26-

    An awful lot of straw man arguments here. We are talking about guns today. Specifically how the U.S. has 50% of the world’s civilian-owned guns and 4% of it’s population; and that I have to jump through more hoops to get over the counter cold-medicine than purchasing a military grade firearm in many instances.

  33. Adam says:

    Huck #24-

    PMD is pointing out that the argument of more guns= safer, is absolutely inane. Either that went right over your head or you did not want to address it.
    2nd amendment: ‘ a well-regulated militia’ sure doesn’t look like one to me. ‘the right of the people to keep and bear Arms’ Since the founding fathers could not have imagined modern weaponry, I would say there is a lot or room here for our 21st society to decide what arms are acceptable for a well regulated militia to keep. And SCOTUS has not disagreed with this point.

  34. PMD says:

    We have more guns than people in this country. By NRA and gun nut logic we should be the safest country on the planet, by far. Oops.


    Most commentary here is par for the course, though from a smaller number of individuals than I expected.

  36. PMD says:

    Hey you’ve got two racists in troll and huck on your side George so you should feel real proud. You also haven’t refuted the plethora of arguments made against your drivel.


    Among those offering views I count two who identify themselves with a first and last name. If memory serves, on Twitter and FB one knows with whom one is discussing or arguing an issue. It would be sarcastic to suggest that there’s a reason some might not want to attach a name to their views.

  38. fightingbobfan says:

    I have come to the conclusion that we can’t afford reactionary conservatism.

    The gun violence your side propagates costs this country a quarter of a trillion a year, not counting the human misery and tragedy brought to tens of thousands. That money, by the way, is two and a half times the direct costs of the 9/11 attacks, so we do this every single year.

    Thanks to this last incident it looks like the alarm clock has gone off, we have woke up as a country and we are through catering your hobby, your greed and your paranoia.

  39. PMD says:

    And since you abandoned social media George apparently you are unaware of the reprehensible behavior of the real gun nuts, who have been viciously attacking the Parkland survivors and spreading fake news about them. Just like they peddle BS about gun control advocates wanting to take everyone’s guns when no one is calling for that. You are not above the fray. You are in the muck.

  40. fightingbobfan says:

    Not taking guns away?

    I and many others see no purpose for AR-15 style weapons in the unregulated hands of the public. Make them available only to the military and police, and if someone who is not in one of these two groups, make them available only under very controlled situations.

  41. RobertW says:

    Adam #33

    Here is the 2nd amendment:

    “A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.”

    There are comma’s you forgot. Can’t have a militia without civilians having their own weapons. I suppose you would have liked the Revolutionary War militia’s to use rocks and spears instead of the current state of technology?

  42. fightingbobfan says:

    Q: How do you make a gun lover go blind?

    A: Have them read the phrase “well-regulated.”


    fightingbobfan #40: Unless I missed it yours is the first specific proposal. You don’t describe what constitutes an “AR-15 style weapon” but I think I get your drift. The practical challenge associated with “mak[ing] them available only to the military and police” is that the horse already is out of the barn. AR-15s are widely and legally owned. To fulfill your goal they would need to be confiscated in large numbers. That’s unlikely to happen, but I accept that you apparently think it should. For discussion, once they all were confiscated there would remain millions of pistols of the kind I own. Anyone of a mind to commit mayhem could strap a couple on a belt along with, say, 10 twenty-round clips. With a modicum of practice, that person could easily enter a public building and discharge most if not all the rounds in 15 minutes. So, the banned AR-15 would be gone but the potential for mass shooting would not go away. Well, you might say, then only make semi-automatic pistols available to the military and policy. That means a confiscation program and has zero chance of happening. Some other observers here say correctly that there are very large numbers of guns in America. As most are legally owned, the idea of “banning” them is unworkable absent a massive confiscation regime. Last point: once the legally owned guns are confiscated there still will be a large array of illegal guns in the hands of criminals.

  44. PMD says:

    But the militia, which is civilians, is supposed to be regulated right? RobertW is part of the problem. Right to no guns.

    I meant that the gun nuts always claim that gun control advocates are calling for taking away all guns. Not just assault rifles, but every single weapon in this country. Every rifle, every shotgun, and every handgun. That is what they claim and that is not happening. One of their diversionary tools.

  45. revtlee says:

    Well, George and other gun owners, my question is that guy who stopped a car jacking, how many rounds did he fire? One, two, three? Even in self defense why does one need a twenty round magazine for your weapon? When I was in Vietnam in 1969, grunts like me carried twenty clips or magazines of 20 rounds each because we were in the jungle for 10 days at a time and only got resupplied once every fourth day or so. The only people who get off multiple rounds in killing situations are those who perpetrate such massacres. The trained folks who arrive to protect may carry large capacity magazines but they are careful where and who they shoot. We need to limit access to high (more than 10 rounds) capacity magazines or weapons as a first step. Do you really think any car jacking kid is going to hang around after the first round is fired? I will give you your pistol or rifle or shotgun but I won’t give you the ability to shoot more than 10 rounds without reloading. peace, tw

  46. fightingbobfan says:

    Every journey of a thousand miles starts with a first step. Polling shows that a large majority of people oppose these weapons so it is doubtful that anyone beyond the minority who think they should be available would be against stopping the sale of new weapons.

    Confiscation worked in Australia and there is no reason why it couldn’t work here.

    I thought this was supposed to be an exceptional country. Our inability thanks the stubbornness of a few is belying that notion. When real Americans sees a problem like this one, they push for solutions. The NRA is not the solution, they are the problem.

    As for the criminals, making these guns illegal gives one more reason to arrest them. We just have to make some room in the prisons by going with a Portuguese approach to drugs.

    I tired of this country offering up human sacrifices on the altars of greed, paranoia and desire to pursue one’s hobby. We’re better than this.


    revtlee #43

    Twenty rounds is totally arbitrary IMO. I leave it to more knowledgeable folks to discuss how many rounds one “needs” before re-loading. If one is proficient at discarding and loading a new clip you can discharge 20 rounds in about 5-10 seconds longer than it would take with one. The larger point remains: horse is out of the barn. There likely are millions of semi-automatic pistols with 20-round magazines that are legally owned. To get rid of that you need to advocate confiscation and accept that you won’t get most of the ones that are illegally owned.


    fightingbobfan #46: I respect your opinion and credit you for advocating it directly and recognizing the implications of “banning” a weapon now in wide circulation. A point I should have made more clearly in my piece is that people talk glibly about banning weapons without really knowing the terminology or acknowledging that they favor a confiscation program. I am not well-informed about how the Australian program was implemented. Your suggestion that a large majority of Americans would support confiscation is I believe incorrect. Have you seen a credible poll to that affect?

  49. fightingbobfan says:

    Again, we are an exceptional country. Nobody thought we’d eliminate virtually all public smoking or that hwe be having people wear seat belts. The culture changed. No reason why it can’t happen now.

    As for criminals, most of the mass, high body count shootings are done by “the good guys with a gun.”


    Public bans on smoking and seat-belt laws are not in the same league with a national confiscation program. Not gonna happen, IMO. But again it’s to your credit that you accept ownership of the idea.

  51. Huck L. Berry says:

    The United States doesn’t have a gun violence problem — it has a violent Democrat problem. If we deported all of you gun violence in this country would drop by 85% overnight. Get a grip on your own people before trying to disarm law abiding citizens.

    You left-wing sumpremacists are on the wrong side of history. Crack a book sometime and do some research on human nature.

  52. PMD says:

    Details on Australia:

    I’ve never understood the argument that nothing should be done because criminals will always find a way to get a gun. That doesn’t stop us from cracking down on say drinking and driving even though we will never completely stop it from occurring.

  53. fightingbobfan says:

    George in #48 61% are for an assault weapons ban, and I’ll bet with the next incident, which should arrive soon, that number will kick up father. The NRA to their credit, if not doing anything to cool that down.

    As for Australia, I’ve talked to a number of people from their and they tell me it worked, there was some opposition (there’s real men there as you know) and there has not be a mass killing since Tasmania 20 years ago.

    On top of that, people didn’t turn to alternative means as some would claim, because the Australian murder rate is better than half of ours.

    I am confident in your Googling skills and you will no doubt easily find that information, with a soupçon of distortions provided by the pro-gun crowd.

  54. fightingbobfan says:

    George in #50, the point of this is both of these things happened (along with other things) because of a cultural change.

    The other needed cultural change is the reality that the dangers posed by having a hand gun far outweigh the protection it supposedly provides.

  55. fightingbobfan says:

    Huck #51, if you are portraying a cartoon of a gun lover, well done.

    If not, this is an opportunity to point out that in this country your chance of being killed by an immigrant in a terrorist attack is one in one billion.

    “Typical” gun violence puts your odds of being killed at one in 14,000. This is from the Cato Institute.

    So based on your logic, we need to deport all the native born. Fortunately I am 1/32 native American


    A majority of the public favors “stricter controls” on assault weapons. I have not seen anything about a “ban.” To favor “stricter controls” is just nebulous sloganeering.

    In any event, fightingbobfan is straightforward in putting a specific idea on the table.

  57. PMD says:

    The Giffords Law Center has sensible model laws.

  58. Huck L. Berry says:


    “So based on your logic, we need to deport all the native born.”

    No, I never said that immigrants commit more gun crimes. I said that Democrats do. That is an indisputable fact.

    “The other needed cultural change is the reality that the dangers posed by having a hand gun far outweigh the protection it supposedly provides.”

    That’s not true. But anyways, there it is folks — the reasoning that leads to total confiscation.

  59. Huck L. Berry says:

    @ PMD “That doesn’t stop us from cracking down on say drinking and driving even though we will never completely stop it from occurring.”

    Completely irrelevant — you don’t have a Constitutional right to drive drunk. So in PMD’s world, we should further subordinate ourselves to incompetent government officials because opiates and drunk driving are bad? Brilliant.

  60. fightingbobfan says:

    ” I said that Democrats do. That is an indisputable fact.”

    Where did you get one? From the Bureau of Your Butt?

    “That’s not true.”

    Of course it is. Someone defending themselves with a gun shows up in the paper maybe once every two weeks vs a “good guy with a gun” putting a cap in his wife. This happens twice a day in this country.


    “we should further subordinate ourselves to incompetent government officials because opiates and drunk driving are bad?”

    Want to sober up and try this one again?

  61. Troll says:

    Politically you have to give the left credit. They are making children take up their cause. How do you defend your argument when your left with debating children? The NRA is in favoring of enforcing current gun laws? The left generally sides with the predators in court and drop charges related to guns. The NRA are law abiding gun owners with African American Women there fastest growing dynamic. The left continously claim Donald Trump is a Tyrant equal to Hitler but now want Trump to seize all fire arms. If you want to see a Tyrant look to North Korea where NBC had a love fest with the Kim family. Why does the left love Tyrants? Castro, Chavez and Maduro.

  62. PMD says:

    I wish I could reply to the alt-right folks here but I have to get back to my teleconference. George Soros is leading it. It’s called “How the Global Elites Can Take Everyone’s Guns While Waging War on White Males.” Really compelling stuff so far.

  63. Huck L. Berry says:

    “The left continously claim Donald Trump is a Tyrant equal to Hitler but now want Trump to seize all fire arms. If you want to see a Tyrant look to North Korea where NBC had a love fest with the Kim family.”

    Over 262 MILLION people were killed by their own government in the 20th Century alone. It’s called Democide — a fitting name considering it’s the Democrats that want to disarm us. That number doesn’t even include deaths derived from battle.

    Our Founding Fathers understood human nature and the nature of goverment. This is the reason for the Second Amendment — not for hunting — but to keep from getting slaughtered by the ruling elite. For Democrats to suggest otherwise is a deliberate misstatement of purpose.

    “Why does the left love Tyrants? Castro, Chavez and Maduro.”

    Left-wing ideology induces malicious envy. Epigenetics and brain morphology are also to blame.

  64. Huck L. Berry says:

    ^ @Troll #61

  65. Always Outspoken says:

    Last time I checked, murder was understood by all to be highly illegal. In fact, most would say it’s the most illegal act of all crimes.
    Mass murderers have already made the decision to ignore the obvious illegality of their act. Do you really think that getting the guns they need to carry it out through the black market (which is unaffected by laws, whether new or existing) will deter them from their plans?

  66. fightingbobfan says:

    Calling all dicks. Dicks Sproting Goods is not only going to stop selling assault style weapons, but they will press Congress to stop the sale of these guns.

    Have a good day.

  67. Terry says:

    And now it is Trump enbracing gun control! You can’t make this stuff up. Just imagine what republicans and far right wingers would be saying if it was Hillary or Obama!? It’d be an all out assault on Liberty itself! It’d be tyranny! So sad how dumb, sycophantic and gullible these clowns are. So what now republicans now that Trump is coming for your guns? Just like Hitler, Mao, Stalin and all the other tyrants.
    But hey just think, if we arm teachers then when another crazy far right wing nut job on serotonin re-uptake inhibitors attacks a school with an AR the teacher can shoot into the crowded classroom and hopefully in the chaos of the moment hit his target and not any of the other children cause if he/she can’t the maniac with the AR can easily out gun the teacher with their pea shooter (pictured above) and then take that gun and continue the rampage.

  68. Dave F says:

    If you listened to Republicans, you’d think that nothing can be done about the carnage from gun violence. These things just happen, like tornadoes or earthquakes. The only thing they can do is wring their hands and offer “thoughts and prayers”. The only other thing that has been killing so many Americans has been the opioid epidemic and they haven’t done anything about that either.

    Regarding gun control, they offer a list of reasons why it won’t work: Too many guns out there already; If you ban assault rifles they’ll just use automatic pistols or knives or clubs…: If you ban anything (large clips, large caliber bullets, ect.), the bad guys will just find a way around it. So why waste your time with legislation? The solution? More guns, of course. Trump would like to arm 20% of teachers (typical of Republicans trying to get a twofer from our teachers instead of hiring trained armed security staff) and that would mean 700,000 more firearms in our schools.

    Look, laws aren’t passed with the expectation that the crime will never be committed again. Just because there’s lots of guns out there doesn’t mean we shouldn’t make an attempt to do something about it. Laws are passed primarily to reflect the limits of society’s tolerance for various behaviors. For example, child abuse laws were enacted to show the society’s abhorrence for adults hurting children. If there’s still a lot of child abuse, we strengthen the laws, the penalties, or both.

    But the biggest obstacle to bringing safety into our classrooms (and churches, and offices, and factories, and homes…) may be the Second Amendment. It’s a flawed, archaic piece of legislation. “Bad law” as they would say. How many mothers, children, police officers have been martyred so that paranoids and gun collectors can keep their weapons? So this I want to say to Republicans at large: This country WILL do something about gun control. If you want to keep the Second Amendment, I suggest you bend a little.

  69. Terry says:

    @Dave F, republicans can’t do anything about gun massacres or the opioid epidemic because they are just too busy arresting people for weed.

    Dump Walker 2018

  70. Happyjack says:

    @Terry: I think the running excuse is “this century is not the right time to talk about enacting sensible gun policies.”

  71. Happyjack says:

    …also they can’t do anything about gun massacres because they are too busy voting unanimously against every measure that seeks to do anything about them.

  72. Terry says:

    Trump is coming for your guns republicans! Not Obama, not Hillary, TRUMP!! You toadies that voted for him were suckered hard!

    Mediaite: Watch Dianne Feinstein Erupt With Glee After Trump Seems to Endorse Her Assault Weapons Ban.

    @George Mitchell, so by the “real gun nuts” it appears you mean Ptesident Donald J. Trump!

  73. Happyjack says:

    It’s funny to think that *this* might be the straw that makes them realize they were conned. Not his taxing the poor or the series of resignations from communications staff and complaints of constantly having to lie, or the many studies some both by fact checkers and academics showing him as an extreme outlier in lying, nor the dire warnings from psychologists…

    I could keep going, but the point is: THIS?! Really, this?! That’s what made you realize you were conned?! HILARIOUS!

  74. WashCoRepub says:

    Definitely time to pick up some more ARs and hi-cap magazines this weekend, that’s for damned sure.

  75. Troll says:

    Russ Feingold was PRO-NRA and won three terms by honoring the rural vote. Democrats may be hurting themselves by energizing the rural vote.

  76. Happyjack says:

    It sounds like were having two completely separate conversations here – one very serious conversation on a very serious topic, and the other – I don’t even know. Except not tied in with the other conversation or reality.

  77. Terry says:

    @ Russian Troll, the only thing that is energizing the rural vote is hated for FoxCON and voting democrat so we can legalize marijuana and have jobs and businesses. I know. I live in the woods.

  78. Terry says:

    @WashCoRepub, hurry up! Trump is coming!! Lol! Don’t worry everyone. Pretty soon all these republican chickenhawks and wannabe tough guys will be bending over for Trump and handing him their ARs… while loving every minute of it! Charlatans!!

  79. Terry says:

    “Take the guns first, go through due process second.” — @realDonaldTrump

    Imagine if Obama had said this. Fox News and Republicans would’ve called for him to be impeached! Tried for treason!

  80. Happyjack says:

    Btw, I’m sold on the rocket launcher idea. I cant believe nobody’s floated this before. We should give teachers rocket launchers.

    There, I said it. Now whrn everybody realizes how awesome an idea it is, and when it drastically reduced death by rocket launcher, you will all know it happened here first. By happyjack on urbanmilwaukee. You’re welcome.

  81. troll says:

    The Jews were targeted next, with a large raid in East Berlin on April 4, 1933. Jews were not forbidden to own firearms until 1938, but the raid led to confiscations and arrests. The 1928 Firearms Law was utilized to identify the so-called enemies of the state, locate them, interview them, and subsequently confiscate their weapons, thereby increasing Nazi control and eliminating private ownership of firearms from the majority of society.

  82. Happyjack says:

    So we shouldn’t pass a xeniphobic law targeting minorities as enemies of the state. Gotcha. Sounds really f*cling easy to avoid.

    I’m guessing you are a white anglo-saxon Christian. Do you really think yiu fit with in this category.

    And then let me ask you this: do you think that all the guns you presumably have piled up have a snowball’s chance in tell against a tank or a jet?

    If your best argument really is “they are going to use gun laws to suppress minority views and put them in concentration camps and rule over us with tyranny”, then you vastly underestimate how easy it is to rule over a populace with tyranny.

    It’s simple: keep them uneducated, tell them everyone is out to get them, ask them to join your fight against the elite.

    Nazi Germany wasn’t the nightmare it was because of an all powerful monolithic state, but because of an idiotic populace ruled by fear and empowered by ignorance.

    The saddest and most difficult part of Work War Three there is to accept, is that it was not the politicians that did these horrendous things, but the people.

  83. Happyjack says:

    It is remarkable that ww2 was a war fought to an unprecedented level by propaganda, and ultimately won by it’s opposite: a talented codebreaker who invented a machine so elegant and powerful at discerning the truth behind a deception, that the Nazis just kind of figured it didn’t exist because it was impossible.

    Ww2 was a battle of information and at the end of the day our victory in it revolutionalized the same.

    Should we not take a page out of Alan Turing’s book, and have confidence that fact and reason will solve our problems, no matter how difficult, or how high the stakes are?

  84. Happyjack says:

    I guess in all of these comments I still haven’t seen any of the conservative “not gun nuts”, propose any practical solutions for, you know, mass shootings, or even make a single non-straw-man argument that wasn’t some kind of paranoid “don’t take my gun!”, you know, nutty thing.

    If the thesis of the article was that it’s not “conservatives” that are the gun nuts, but the “liberals”, badixally every comment on this thread has been evidenve to the contrary.

    Also, you really want to make this a partisan issue? Life and death? Especially when, as I alluded to earlier, 97% of Americans would like to see sensible gun policies enacted, such as universal background checks.

    Abraham Lincoln said in his inaugural address “we are all democrats, we are all republicans.” While that may not be try, almost all if us want universal background checks. If that’s “nutty”, than I am nutty, and happy to be in the company of other “nuts”.

  85. Jacob pickard says:

    Just another article as an excuse so some bigoted entitled white male can amass an arsenal of military weapons, while allowing murderers and those who amass arsenals can become murderers.

    Ask when does the good guy with a gun becomes a bad guy with a gun?

    Or why does the gun have more right than the constitution first qualification of “life”?

    George Mitchell is just another rightwing troll attacking the those who lived through a mass shooting, while trying to change the debate by switching the topic to that the rest of us are ignorant based on terminology!$!!$!!

    Typical. There is nothing new with this article in fact it’s old.

    Get on the band wagon George! Tel us why armed teachers who know the technical Fire arm definitions to back your pro-NRA gun lobby stance would make the kids safer, but also be better teachers?

    Fact is you and your fellow NRA apologists and gun masturbation therapy enthusiasts, rue the day when Parkland happened.
    Why. The teenagers have voices are able to speak for themselves and know how to use social media to send out their message.

    My guess another elementary school or perhaps a massacre at a daycare would have been more to your liking.

  86. Troll says:

    Todays left would never have went to WWII. They would have worshiped Hitler like Fidel Castro after him and the Kim family recently at the Olympics on NBC.

  87. Happyjack says:

    ^ Case in point about nutty comments by gun nuts ^

  88. Michael Schwister says:

    Let everyone keep their weapons.
    Let’s prohibit bullets. After all it’s bullets that kill people.

  89. Terry says:

    @Russian Troll, it is your boy TRUMP that just asked to include an Assault Weapons BAN among other new restrictions in new Gun Control legislation! That’s right Trump! You and other republicans are SUCKERS!

  90. Jake currently of the MKE says:

    2nd adm cultists ignore the “life” qualification in the beginning of the constitution and the fact an individual is not a well regulated militia, or the fact they fight all regulation.

    George here and others are perfectly happy to sacrifice the lives of innocent people for the ability to masturbate their egos and penis size with a firearm.

    Keep on staking the dead, and collecting the blood for your selfish undemocratic tyranny, the rest of us have lived under far to long

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