Bill Lueders
Gun Homicides

Milwaukee Has Two-Thirds of State’s Gun Killings

76 of 111 victims in 2014 were in Milwaukee. Blacks were 20 times more likely to die in gun homicides.

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Lt. Mark Stanmeyer’s son wanted to know why his dad was going into work on a Sunday. And although the boy is only 9, Stanmeyer, spokesman for the Milwaukee Police Department, decided to tell him.

“A little boy was in his home and someone shot bullets into it and he was killed,” Stanmeyer related of the incident. He found it difficult: “How do you look your child in the face and tell him that?”

Bill Thao, 13 months old, was killed Dec. 27 when his mother took him to visit relatives at a house on Milwaukee’s northwest side. A fusillade of gunfire erupted from the street. He was hit in the lower torso and died at a hospital soon afterward. It was the third death of a child from stray gunfire in Milwaukee last year.

Stanmeyer knew the shooting would make the news and wanted to put it into perspective for his son. He said such things do not happen often and this shooting was not near their own home.

Also, he thought he should be honest with his son: “I want my children to grow up knowing that there are bad people in the world and how to avoid them.”

The need of parents to explain such realities to their children is one facet of the vast impact of gun violence. In Wisconsin last year, 111 people were victims of gun homicides, according to a preliminary tally by Wisconsin Public Radio, part of a yearlong project by reporters Chuck Quirmbach and Gilman Halsted.

Gun Homicides in WisconsinA Wisconsin Center for Investigative Journalism analysis of the homicide tally and other data shows:

  • African Americans, who make up 6.5 percent of the state’s population, accounted for about two-thirds of its firearm homicide victims. Blacks in Wisconsin were more than 30 times as likely as non-Hispanic whites to die in gun homicides. From 2008 to 2012, federal statistics show, this ratio was 20 to 1 for Wisconsin and 10 to 1 for the nation.
  • Of the 111 victims, 89 were male, which is comparable with past state and national averages. The average age for all victims was 32, which is in line with past national averages.
  • Gun homicides occurred in 15 of the state’s 72 counties and were concentrated in urban areas. The city of Milwaukee, with just over 10 percent of the state’s population, had two-thirds of its gun homicides, at 76. Beloit had the second-highest total, with six, followed by Racine, with four.
  • While WPR did not track all state homicides, the experience of Milwaukee shows that guns are by far the most common cause. According to the Milwaukee Journal Sentinel’s “Homicide Database,” firearms were used to commit 87 percent of that city’s homicides last year. Nationally and in Wisconsin from 2008 to 2012, about two-thirds of homicides were firearm-related.

Consistent with national crime reporting standards, the WPR tally does not include suicides, accidental deaths that did not lead to criminal charges, “justified” shootings by law enforcement and shootings ruled to be in self-defense.

There were seven fatal shootings in Wisconsin last year deemed to be in self-defense. One involved an aborted robbery of an optical store in Bayside, a village near Milwaukee, in August. Joshua Drake, 22, was killed in a shootout with a store employee.

The WPR tally also does not include firearm-caused injuries, which in the city of Milwaukee occurred seven times more often than gun homicides. While statewide numbers regarding firearm-caused injuries are not yet available, data from the Milwaukee Homicide Commission show that overall homicides in that city were down 16 percent from 2013, but non-fatal shootings were up 10 percent to 581, the highest number since 2006.

‘Not extraordinary’

Importantly, in terms of the overall numbers of gun homicides in Wisconsin, 2014 was a typical year.

Lt. Mark Stanmeyer talks with reporters at a press conference the day after Laylah Petersen was killed. (Milwaukee Police Department)

Lt. Mark Stanmeyer talks with reporters at a press conference the day after Laylah Petersen was killed. (Milwaukee Police Department)

“It’s not extraordinary,” said Stanmeyer, a 24-year police veteran who has been involved in releasing information on most of Milwaukee’s gun homicides over the past two years. “That’s a sad thing.”

According to a U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention tracker, Wisconsin annually averaged 106 gun homicide deaths from 2008 to 2012, the last year for which official numbers are available. The highest number of gun homicides during this time was 132, in 2012. During this same period, an average of 353 people a year used guns to commit suicide.

Wisconsin’s overall gun homicide rate during this five-year span was half the national average, 1.87 compared to 3.84 deaths per 100,000 residents.

But to those affected by gun homicides, such metrics are unlikely to be of much comfort. The intensity of their loss is overwhelming.

“He was loved, hated, praised, cherished, and cursed by relatives and friends alike,” read the obituary of K.C. Christopher Elliott of Wausau, who on Jan. 3, 2014, became Wisconsin’s first gun homicide victim of the year. “He was a beautiful, unique, kind, strong and loving young man.”

Elliott, 27, was shot in the stomach outside a bar in what police said was an argument over money. John Lewis, 30, was charged with first-degree intentional homicide. That case is pending.

“His passion was music. He would write his own lyrics and make his own beats,” read an obituary for Jeff Hardnett, 25, of Beloit, killed in a shootout with another man in May. “(He) loved shopping, bright color clothes were his favorite. He also loved to eat and was always trying different foods and restaurants.”

Robert Petersen holds a photo of his 5-year-old daughter, Laylah, who was killed Nov. 6 in Milwaukee while sitting indoors on her grandfather’s lap. (Mark Hoffman/Milwaukee Journal Sentinel)

Robert Petersen holds a photo of his 5-year-old daughter, Laylah, who was killed Nov. 6 in Milwaukee while sitting indoors on her grandfather’s lap. (Mark Hoffman/Milwaukee Journal Sentinel)

Why did this happen?

Many of the homicides generated too little media attention to be clearly characterized. Of those that can be, many involve drug deals or altercations. At least a dozen people were killed during what police said were armed robberies.

Twenty of the year’s gun homicides fall into the category of “domestic,” most involving spouses or domestic partners. In four cases, the killer then committed suicide. The suicides were not counted in the tally.

Dulonden Ratliff, 21, of Kenosha, was shot to death in March in an argument on a Racine street that allegedly began over a request for a cigarette. Tommy Canady, a 15-year-old charged with killing Semar McClain, 19, in Racine, reportedly posted a rap video in which he bragged about it.

Candles with names attached, at a Dec. 30 memorial in Milwaukee for victims of gun violence there. (Chuck Quirmbach/Wisconsin Public Radio)

Candles with names attached, at a Dec. 30 memorial in Milwaukee for victims of gun violence there. (Chuck Quirmbach/Wisconsin Public Radio)

The details of the shooting deaths are often repugnant.

Stanmeyer says the questions he most often grapples with when dealing with gun homicides are: Why did this have to happen? Why did somebody reach for a gun and begin firing, with no regard for human life? How did they become so apathetic about their own futures?

In all, there were five deaths involving people hit with stray bullets, including the three children in Milwaukee: Bill Thao, 13 months, Sierra Guyton, 10, and Laylah Petersen, 5. Sierra was shot in the head in May while playing in a playground across the street from her home; she died nearly two months later. Laylah was killed in November while sitting indoors on her grandfather’s lap.

An additional 12 children age 13 and under were wounded by gunfire in 2014 but survived, the Milwaukee Homicide Commission reported. The same number of children have been killed by stray gunfire in Milwaukee since 1995.

On Dec. 30, Milwaukee church leaders and community groups held a candlelight vigil for the city’s gun victims. The Rev. Leondis Fuller, who has lost three sons to gun violence, addressed the gathering. He spoke in particular about the fatal shootings of children.

“The younger these babies get, the more angry the community is getting,” said Fuller, according to a WPR report. “We’re getting fed up and I think that us coming together like this and doing it more often, we can see some changes.”

Seeking Solutions

Milwaukee Mayor Tom Barrett at a Dec. 28 news conference regarding the shooting death of Bill Thao, a 13-month-old. He decried those responsible for firing bullets into a house as having “no moral compass.” (Chuck Quirmbach/Wisconsin Public Radio)

Milwaukee Mayor Tom Barrett at a Dec. 28 news conference regarding the shooting death of Bill Thao, a 13-month-old. He decried those responsible for firing bullets into a house as having “no moral compass.” (Chuck Quirmbach/Wisconsin Public Radio)

Jeri Bonavia, executive director of the advocacy group Wisconsin Anti-Violence Effort, or WAVE, laments what she sees as a societal failure to address what are essentially preventable deaths.

“If any other problem were related to this many deaths of our young people, we as a nation would stand up and demand solutions,” she said. “But because it’s guns, we say this is an acceptable price to pay for somebody’s notion of freedom.”

WAVE supports mandatory background checks on all gun sales, including those that occur at gun shows and between individuals.

Nik Clark, the chairman and president of Wisconsin Carry Inc., a group that advocates for less restrictive state gun laws, said the underlying problem is one of violence, not guns. In fact, he sees guns as part of the solution.

“If we put a gun in the hands of law-abiding citizens, we’d have fewer victims of crimes,” Clark said. He also thinks the justice system is too lenient on people who commit “gateway crimes” like auto theft and armed robbery. “There is no deterrent until you actually do something like shoot a 13-month old.”

Gov. Scott Walker, in an interview with the Wisconsin Center for Investigative Journalism, was dismissive of calls to require universal background checks, saying many guns find their way into the hands of criminals through “straw buyers” who can pass these checks.

But he did tout the state’s support of Milwaukee’s ShotSpotter program, which allows police to pinpoint through sound the locations in which firearms have been discharged. He hopes this technology will help police crack down on people who discharge weapons on city streets.

Walker added that what amazed him, as much as the technology itself, was the finding that only 14 percent of the shooting incidents it identified had been called in to police. Most of the time, he said, the people who hear these shots are afraid of retaliation or else “were just so immune to it” that they did not bother to act.

“In either case,” Walker said, “that’s a really damning scenario about just how horrific it is for many people to live in those neighborhoods.”

Wisconsin Center for Investigative Journalism reporter Kate Golden contributed to this report, which was supported by The Joyce Foundation. The nonprofit Center (WisconsinWatch.org) collaborates with Wisconsin Public Radio, Wisconsin Public Television, other news media and the UW-Madison School of Journalism and Mass Communication.

All works created, published, posted or disseminated by the Center do not necessarily reflect the views or opinions of UW-Madison or any of its affiliates.

55 thoughts on “Gun Homicides: Milwaukee Has Two-Thirds of State’s Gun Killings”

  1. Justin A says:

    I wonder what percentage of those homicides were committed by black people vs how many homicides were committed by non-Hispanic white people.

  2. PMD says:

    Why do you wonder that Justin?

  3. Casey says:

    It’s really not that bad of a question despite whatever Justin’s motives are for asking. Race on race murder is a problem. I feel safe to assume most of the white people who were murdered were murdered by fellow white people.
    I do think it would be interesting to see where the perps and victims fall on the income scale. The reason why is because I think there might be a corelation between income/desperation/self control and the commiting of violent crimes.

  4. MARY GLASS says:

    January 12, 2015

    This is a great background article and reference tools and connectors for ALL who choose to assist with building a more positive outcome on January 12, 2016 with this epidemic.

    Kudos to Bill Lueders, Wisconsin Center for Investigative Journalism

  5. MARY GLASS says:

    January 12, 2015

    This is a great background article and reference tools and connectors for ALL who choose to assist with building a more positive outcome on January 12, 2016 with this epidemic.

    Kudos to Bill Lueders, Wisconsin Center for Investigative Journalism

  6. PMD says:

    Not saying it isn’t a problem Casey, but based on previous things he’s said, I’m betting Justin has dubious motives.

  7. Wisconsin Conservative Digest says:

    This is what I have been harping on for 30 years. Let us prioritize our problems in the area and put everyone to work on them. Ad nauseum I have said that these are our problems.
    1. Crime
    2. MPS
    3. 57% youth unemployment,
    4. corruption
    5. Bad management
    6. Lousy Milwauakee County Board, they are nuts
    7. abandoned houses
    8. human trafficking
    9. High taxes
    I have had the pleasure of working in and around the inner city for decades. The people there are not dumb. The Liberal, white, racists have set up programs that destroyed families and failed to educate the kids, provide them jobs. That causes the crime problems. So we fix MPS, we fix crime and lost of problems go away Less crime, better educated work force and businesses come in. Look at that Amazon plant in Kenosha. Less crime, better educated work force, they could be here. Milwaukee kicked out a company to New Berlin plus Wal Marts for PC reasons. they crapped on NML.
    Fix the neighborhoods and downtown will take care of itself.
    The crime solutions are out there, I sent them to Bruce Murphy. We have not implemented them. David Clarke has pointed them out. We have all listened to the white liberal racists whine about them, but they are incapable of solving them.

  8. PMD says:

    Amazon chose that location because Kenosha residents are better educated than Milwaukee residents? And can you post your crime solutions here so I can read them? I’d love to take a look because you act as if everything is so simple but you only speak in generalities.

  9. Casey says:

    Kenosha’s crime rate has been rising the last few years and I’m sure the roughly $10,000,000.00 in tax credits and being next to I94 and just a 1/2 hour from O’hare had nothing to do with bringing Amazon there….
    By WCD logic the state should make all corperations tax exempt and the economy and standard of living will really take off.

  10. wisconsin Conservative Digest says:

    Ask Bruce to post the Frankovis solutions. I think Bruce is cared cause it would disrupt the Liberal narrative. Glenn was the captain in worst precincts for years and did great job. Now we have PC crime relief keeping thugs out of jail for PC reasons. Everytime we have one of these little kids get killed it is by someone out on parole, long list of arrests and getting plenty of guns on the street, not from gun shows or in Crandon, wi.
    Years back the top Asst. DA under McCann told me that he could tell you all of the people that would commit 90% of the crimes for the next 10 years. He said that the judges refuse to put them in jail. Until the crime starts to hit the white liberal racists on east side, Shorewood nothing will change. They really do not care much if a few black kids get blown away by other black kids just when a cop kills someone, or they would march.

  11. PMD says:

    So two of the main components of your anti-crime suggestion are getting guns off the street and giving criminals longer sentences? Is that accurate?

  12. Wisconsin Conservative Digest says:

    Casey you cheap shot artists that have been leading Milwaukee for decades are why al the businesses locate in Waukesha. Get the criminals off the street and keep guns from them, which is almost impossible. NYPD under Guiliani and Bloomberg reduce aggravated assaults by almost 80%. Across the country cities like Austin and many others have greatly reduced the crime while have a hundred gun stores in the city. Reading the entries here is almost the most humorous thing I do every day, watching Milwaukee desotry itself the same way Detroit did by pending money downtown instead of on he neighborhoods is scary. Barrett is nice guy dumbest leader I have ever watched, though Doyle was close second.

  13. Casey says:

    “Glenn was the captain in worst precincts for years and did great job”
    So having the worst precinct shows he did a great job?
    If I ran the worst department at work I’m sure I’d be out of a job.

  14. PMD says:

    OK I know you love to bash liberals, but regardless of how one feels about gun control, liberals are pretty well known for trying to get guns off the streets and passing more gun control measures like universal background checks (which actually has broad support). Just sayin’.

    So how did Austin get guns off the street and reduce crime while having 100 gun stores in the city?

  15. Casey says:

    How many murders have been committed by folks who already served time in a “correctional facility”? Maybe that might be one of many places to start. Correctional facilities should really focus on rehabilitation so when that population is released they don’t return to the same life style.
    I also think the amount of broken families and poverty also lead to the sort of desperation that inturn leads to violent crime. Now…that is the tough one to fix.

  16. Wisconsin Conservative Digest says:

    Casey listen to your blather is silly. Universal registration is another one of your dumb ides that produces nothing. it is the criminals that you need to regulate. In Milwaukee last summer only 50% of the crimes committed with guns prosecuted them for the gun use. In Chicago only 6% of the gun crimes. No wonder you can never solve any problems in Milwaukee. There are more guns per capita in Langlade country than probably anyplace else in state and how many were used in crime last yea?. Get the thugs off the street. But keep whining about that the public knows that you are nuts that s why you all were tossed out across the country.
    Then the constant whine about poverty, broken homes, bad education. You people created those problem now you whine about it.
    We have choice: Make some guy register a gun when he sells it to his next door neighbor in Eau claire, Crandon etc. or put the thugs in jail that create all the problems. You choose the one that does not work, but is politically fodder for the Left.

  17. PMD says:

    WCD, I mentioned universal background checks. And seriously, must you resort to name calling? Can’t we have a civil discussion without it?

    Yes getting violent criminals off the streets is important, no argument here. But the prevalence of guns is an issue. Straw purchasing is a problem. Also, The Chicago Tribune ran a story about a guy who went to Indiana repeatedly, purchased arsenal after arsenal at gun shows (without questions or paperwork of any kind), and then returned to Chicago to sell it all. The guns were used in homicides and other violent crimes for years before the police finally caught and arrested him.

  18. Casey says:

    So WCD do you not think the high rate of recidivsm isn’t an issue that effects violent crimes? Or is it that you don’t think broken families have anthing to do with it? Which of these do you think is silly blather?

    I’m all for having a lively and contructive conversation.

  19. wisconsin Conservative Digest says:

    Course recidivism is problem but getting these bad guys off street is why across the country plus the addition of CCarry has greatly lowered crime in many places. Research NY, Austin, many other places.
    There are as many as 500 million guns in country, more being sold every day. Countries where you cannot have guns like France see more aggravated assaults than US. Aggravated assaults went up in Australia when they took guns away. I have been frequent victim of crime. 18 burglaries in pharmacy, house burglarized twice almost home invasions,last year. Cars broken in to assaulted by guys with knives and on. All of them had long list of criminal activities. Why are they criminals? It is profitable, you seldom get caught and seldom punished. Kremers, Chisholm, Abele, Barrett, Flynn have pact to keep people out of jail. Clarke, elected with 80% of the people last fall, exposes that and so you hate him. The inner city population is in worst shape feel sorry for those people. In pharmacy have talked to many of them. The thugs laugh at the police most of the time, then they run into trouble get shot and people stand up for them instead of police. I hate to think of what the inner city would be like if the police went on strike.

  20. PMD says:

    Didn’t homicides with guns go way down in Australia when they banned assault weapons? You are cherry picking data. No first world nation has gun crime like the U.S. does. More guns has not reduced crime.

    Again, how did Austin reduce gun crime while also maintaining so many gun stores? You speak like you’re an expert on it but you can’t answer basic questions.

  21. Rich says:

    So, WCD, what is it that you want? “Criminals off the street”…What does that mean? Life sentences for everyone? Newsflash, California tried that and it doesn’t work either. So if not, what do you do with them when they’ve “served their time”? Who’s going to pay for this extended incarceration? To borrow from one of your oft-repeated suggestions, if you think not spending $60mil (That’s million with an “M”) on the streetcar is going to “lock ’em all up forever”, then you’re delusional: WI DOC budget for current bienium is $1.3bil / year. That’s billion with “B” (http://doc.wi.gov/Documents/Web/About/DataResearch/Budget/Agency%20Request%20-%20Final%20Document%20-%2009%2017%202012.pdf)

    Obviously, the threat of incarceration has not “fixed the problem(s)” and actual incarceration has probably created more. People steal and commit crimes because they are (not) raised in stable environments that display that type of respect and because they have nothing to live for, a cycle that more jail/prison will do nothing to fix. So we’re all ears for your solutions and less of your rhetoric.

    Maybe, just maybe a program that gets someone a job — like in a pharmacy perhaps — would keep them off the street.

  22. PMD says:

    Yeah Wisconsin already incarcerates more black men than any other state in the nation and spends a ton of money to incarcerate people. More prison spending and more incarceration doesn’t seem to be the answer.

  23. Wisconsin Conservative Digest says:

    Our crime has gone down since we are incarcerating more but that is not the answer, prevention is the answer and Frankovis laid out plans that the used to reduce crime, so has Clarke, in worst areas under Jones, Bloomberg, many other cities have used prevention programs that have been very successful and those should be used. I cannot possibly type them all here, people need to do some homework. Most people here are just Lefties with big opinions little knowledge or experience in doing anything. left has controlled Milwaukee for 1100 years and they have to take responsibility for the problems, outlined by me.

  24. PMD says:

    OK before you said more incarceration is the answer, and that political correctness is “keeping thugs out of jail.” Now you say more incarceration is not the answer, that prevention is the answer. So which is it?

  25. Casey says:

    @Rich- I echo your same thoughts. Is it lack of political will or perhaps spot light why Wisconsin’s correctional institutions are not truely correcting behavior? I really feel if men came out of prisons after learning how to become productive particpants in society violent crime would plummet.

  26. wisconsin Conservative Digest says:

    PMD you should be able to figure it out.
    it would be nice if they rehabbed people but most just learn more about crime. Bad place. I worked one summer at Juvie facility n La?Crosse and there is” such a thing as a bad boy”

  27. PMD says:

    So you contradict yourself and it’s up to me to figure out what you actually mean? Ah, OK then.

  28. Wisconsin Conservative Digest says:

    Okay, see if you can follow this I will make it simple so you and Bruce will understand it. You incarcerate the thugs when they commit crimes, but you set up a system that reduces the need to incarcreate them. That is what Giuliani did.

  29. PMD says:

    And if anyone wants to know specifics, do your own research because you don’t have time to actually go into detail about anything. Got it.

  30. Casey says:

    @WCD “set up a system that reduces the need to incarcerate them”
    Can you share some points about this system?

    Before you call me lazy for not doing my own research remember its more efficient if the one that already has that knowledge readily available shares it rather than having others do the same work. Plus it would be nice to have these points on this discussion so its more productive.

  31. Rich says:

    For those curious, this is the “Frankovis” WCD references:
    http://www.badgerwordsmith.com/spingolafiles/tag/glenn-frankovis/

    Namely, his book:
    http://www.amazon.com/Area-Saturation-Patrol-Policing-Strategy/dp/1495316130/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1406549961&sr=8-1&keywords=glenn+frankovis

    Noting that the thrust of the strategy mentioned there is “area saturation patrol”, I find we’ve already been doing this for a while now: http://www.jsonline.com/news/crime/126917368.html and http://city.milwaukee.gov/ImageLibrary/Groups/mpdAuthors/SOP/DIRECTEDPATROLMISSION-300.pdf

    Clarke, OTOH, just told people to shoot first and ask questions later. To me, that’s more akin to what the criminals do.

  32. wisconsin Conservative Digest says:

    PMD. If the Digest sez it it is gospel.. disprove it.

  33. PMD says:

    Disprove what exactly? And please answer Casey’s questions. They are valid and reasonable.

  34. Kyle says:

    Did the Digest “sez” it? Can you link us to your publication where it says it? Or did an anonymous commentor on a message board claiming to be a digest say it? (Whatever it it happens to be)

  35. Alex says:

    I saw a news article on Fox News about the rise in gun crime in Milwaukee and figured I’d look more into the situation. One of the members of the show on Fox News stated that tougher laws and banning firearms would solve the problem, they also stated a bunch of made up and tainted facts as to why owning a firearm is not safe.

    My question is why are there a need for stricter laws when the current laws on the books do nothing to stop criminals, yet all they do is affect law abiding citizens? How many of these violent crimes were committed by someone who legally obtained and firearm vs someone who had no legal rights to own a firearm and still obtained one through black market activities. The reason I want to bring this to light is there tough laws on cocaine use and possession yet that doesn’t seem to curb the issue. If you look at some cities with tough gun laws, Chicago, NYC, LA for example they still have rampant gun crimes and violence, the only ones disarmed are the law abiding citizens.

    Here in Houston, Jack in the box banned firearms from their stores, within 24 hours following this announcement they were robbed 2-3 times at gun point, once in the middle of the day during the lunch rush! The only people who were not armed in the store were law abiding citizens.

    I am by no means saying more guns is the solution, I’m not saying less guns is the solution. We need to look into other contributing factors, we need to enforce the laws in place, despite what some people think it is not that easy to purchase a firearm, in WA and in TX each time they have run my criminal history to ensure I was not some kind of criminal or nut job. In TX I’ve gone through hours of class time and demonstrated my competence with a fire arm, along with backgrounds checks before being licensed to carry a firearm. Criminals bypass all of this and carry them illegally. There are many disqualifying factors that would prevent someone in TX from carrying a firearm legally, convictions of class B misdemeanors, failure to pay child support, drug convictions and the list goes on.

    All more anti gun laws are going to do is disarm law abiding citizens and leave more armed criminals on the streets, at no point will it actually prevent crimes from happening or keeping anyone safe. Correction it make the criminals safer because they do not have to worry about who they rob or assault.

  36. wisconsin Conservative Digest says:

    Alex, you are exactly right. Gun control is purely a political idea, has nothing to do with crime. Guns are Barrett/Chisholm/Flynn/Kremers excuse fro being incapable of running anything. Barrett is completely incapable of governing.
    Henry Maier would never have allowed this crap to go on. They control the agenda. When Chisholm and the male, white racist, liberals are not using their money to chase Scott for political reasons they do not put people in jail for PC reasons.

  37. PMD says:

    WCD, do you agree with Flynn that it should not be a misdemeanor when someone is caught carrying a gun illegally a second or subsequent time? Does the legislature have any role here? What about the fact that anyone with a misdemeanor can get a concealed carry license as long as it wasn’t a domestic violence incident? What about universal background checks? Last I read even the vast majority of Republicans agreed with that one.

  38. PMD says:

    Alex did you say it is not that easy to purchase a firearm? How do you figure that?

  39. wisconsin Conservative Digest says:

    A felon carrying a gun should be a felony. What if a woman is carrying a gun to protect herself from a suitor/husband? Want to put her in jail? Ruin her life? Depends entirely on circumstances so would give judge leeway here. That is not the problem, the problem is that these thugs that are committing all this mayhem, killing kids etc. are not in jail, where they belong cause of BArrett/Chisholm/Flynn/Kremers deal.

  40. PMD says:

    That situation happened in Florida WCD. A woman (black of course) fired a warning shot into the ceiling because her abusive husband came over to her house in violation of a court order. She was not allowed to use Stand Your Ground and got 20 years in prison.

    So isn’t the Legislature dropping the ball here if someone caught illegally carrying a gun more than once is only guilty of a misdemeanor?

  41. Wisconsin Conservative Digest says:

    do not believe that a black woman got 20 years in jail for firing to scare off a husband.

  42. PMD says:

    Oh really? Why am I not surprised.

    “A judge sentenced a Jacksonville, Florida, woman to 20 years in prison Friday for firing a warning shot in an effort to scare off her abusive husband.”

    http://www.cnn.com/2012/05/11/justice/florida-stand-ground-sentencing/

  43. wisconsin Conservative Digest says:

    That is incredible, she should have shot him. Bad law on something like that. Women need protection

  44. AG says:

    Making it a felony to unlawfully carry a gun, especially after multiple offenses, seems reasonable… but if the prosecutors and judges don’t actually convict people for the crimes they’re committing and giving light sentences for the crimes they are convicted of, whats the point? So many of these homicide stories have a similar story… some criminal who has a history of violence was given chance after chance with light sentences and plea bargains and eventually someone dies at their hands.

    Combine that with the no chase policy, allowing criminals to run from the cops and get away means that any criminal with an illegal gun in the car gets a free pass to run from the cops OR they have a stolen car to commit other crimes with. Not to mention the idea that we have to go easy on sentencing African Americans simply because they make up a larger proportion of inmates in the prisons already.

    Make it a felony to possess a firearm w/o a permit? Fine. But lets also create some real consequences for these criminals to help deter the younger population from wanting to follow in that same path.

  45. PMD says:

    I mostly agree with you AG, but I think people are advocating for change in sentencing for drug crimes like marijuana possession, as opposed to a general push for going easy on black offenders due to their rate of incarceration.

  46. PMD says:

    Also, I don’t know much about prison life in Wisconsin (or anywhere). How much effort is there to truly rehabilitate people? So for example the guy who shot and killed the two people near Wahl Park the other day, he had served time for robbery. And that speaks the high recidivism rate. Are we actually trying to rehabilitate offenders in our jails and prisons, or are they just honing their criminal ways?

  47. Wisconsin Conservative Digest says:

    There is little or no effort to rehab people, they are just housed and punished. I have worked as juvie counselor in private home for boys, counseled addicts, users, watched my stores become burglarized, robbed, by addicts, and realized that society refuses to spend the money there, but tosses billions into food stamps and other programs that do little to help the whole problem.

  48. PMD says:

    Not attempting to rehabilitate prisoners seems like a big problem. Do you think there’s little public desire for it and more desire to see prisoners punished? Or is there no effort to differentiate between who needs rehabilitation and who needs punishment?

  49. AG says:

    PMD, after the rash of violence lately, it’s hard not to think first and foremost we need to get these thugs off the street. Creating rehabilitation programs is great, but lets first make sure these guys aren’t able to terrorize their communities first and THEN look to see which ones can be rehabilitated. And lets let the young kids who are leaning towards a life that emulates these criminals see guys getting locked up for long periods of time with the hope that they instead seek a better path before following in their footsteps.

  50. wisconsin Conservative Digest says:

    Now we got back to basics. For over 40 years I have been screaming about MPS and the kids that cannot even read. Dopey people on this site defend that. Who cares if a few Black or Hispanic kids cannot read?? They vote for us on Left. If we make them smart they will get jobs, buy houses, raise families and vote Conservative. Keep them dumb, just keep crime in inner city.
    The male, white, liberal, racists that control Milwaukee do not give a damn about these kids and I have said that since I ran Dyke campaign in ’74. Have advocated for busting up MPS and giving control back to the neighborhoods. Darling/Kooyeng want to do the same thing. Left tists here ridicule them. If kids cannot read, and 3of 4 in MPS cannot, by third grade we lose them.
    Start at the beginning, not the end. build your foundation, control crime, get these kids to school, get them educated, get them jobs. The Left has chased the jobs to Waukesha with their stupidity.
    Idea: Fire Barrett/Chisholm/Flynn and replace with Clarke/Frankovis. Put city into receivership or recall.

  51. PMD says:

    Sounds like someone is parroting Ann Coulter’s argument from the other day, that only ignorant, uneducated people vote Democrat. I don’t know why I think one can have a normal conversation with you. You ignore questions asked and sooner or later just rant & rave about all the white liberal racists. I have never come across someone who is as much of a broken record as you. In a year or more of reading your comments here, there are like 3 things you repeat over and over again, and nothing else.

  52. Wisconsin Conservative Digest says:

    When dealing with kids or ignoramuses you must keep pointing out how to ride a trike.

  53. PMD says:

    If you truly believe that only one political party cares about children, or crime, or education, well, you might want to ease up on calling other people ignorant.

  54. AG says:

    PMD, I agree with many of WCD’s opinions… but even I can’t stand his ramblings and incoherent messages and thoughts. I’m not sure how you’re able to continually reply to him and attempt to have a conversation. It’s like talking to a brick wall. I tip my hat…

  55. PMD says:

    I think we’re all familiar with hate watching TV shows, even if we don’t do it. Today I read about a variation of that, hope watching, people continuing to watch a show because they believe sooner or later they’ll like it. I guess with WCD I am hope posting, foolishly believing that if I ask questions in a calm manner, he will answer them and refrain from going on rants unrelated to said questions.

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