Sorry for your problem posting a comment. We post every comment that isn’t clearly spam or slander.
I was certainly there, as the photo proves (and my lighter wallet). There was a golf cart going back and forth blaring a megaphone siren, encouraging people to clear the road. I left Brady Street around midnight that night, and didn’t notice when traffic actually returned. The street clearing did start a few minutes after 11. The point isn’t that cars return right away, but that the streets are cleared with that apparent intention.
My greater point is that if cars did not return to the street until 1:30 or 3, why kick the people off the street at 11? If the area they’re occupying needs to be reduced, do that. If not just let them be while stage removal goes on.
In no way am I criticizing Brady Street Festival, or any festival. I love to attend them. The policy of clearing the people off the street at 11 to me just seems misguided. If there is a need for it, I can’t figure it out, but every festival seems to observe it.
The Bastille Days examples I referenced do include cars returning before midnight.
The festivals I’ve had first-hand closing experience with are Summer Solstice on North Avenue, Riversplash, Summer Sizzle in the Third Ward, Brady Street Festival, and Bastille Days. I’ve been at Locust Street Festival, but never late enough to know when it shuts down (although I assume it’s 11 p.m.).
I’ve tried to ask security guards and police why the streets must be opened, and the most frequent answer I get is “that’s the rule.” I’ve never been able to find the rule, so I was hoping this post might bring it to light.
@digitalhermit – Unfortunately, it would appear that the dorm has many of the amenities the coffee shop would offer, including the coffee shop (The Grind) itself. The only challenge might that you probably couldn’t get coffee at 3 a.m. (but the OP across the street might solve that).
@Dan – My apartment anecdote was admittedly far weaker than any census data. Apartheid though implies absolute separation, and my apartment note just shows that it’s not absolutely exasperated. Far too much segregation though.
If a black middle class is the missing piece (or at least a key missing piece) in making race relations better in Milwaukee, how do we as a city foster such a group? What are the stepping stones? Something tells me Bronzeville doesn’t make that short list.
Amusing look at our article numbers. The numbers are skewed slightly, because the additional neighborhood breakdowns weren’t introduced until recently (East Side used to encompass everything north of Ogden). The point stays the same though.
In our defense, we’re not aiming to cover the day-to-day of neighborhood’s as much as we are the urban built-environment. We have a long list of articles we hope/plan to write envisioning the growth of the neighborhood’s you mentioned, but they’re incredibly more time intensive to write as they require a lot more planning and blue sky thought than simple reactions to existing proposals. As time passes we’ll broaden our coverage area to the areas that border the northwestern corner of downtown (Alison will certainly appreciate it so I quit verbally detailing my plans to her whenever we walk around Hillside, Haymarket Square, Avenues West, Brewers Hill).
Our coverage of downtown hasn’t been as detailed as I would like either, so it’s not that we have all kinds of extra time. Stuff falls through the cracks that we would like to cover in the areas some would say we cover too much.
I learned about the SEED idea too late to be a quality advocate for it, was disappointing to watch it get snubbed in the state budget process.
@Nate – I will take your bait, as someone who lives East of the Milwaukee River. I think it’s worth largely ignoring your assumption that East Siders are like suburbanites (and that suburbanites must be ones commenting on the JS). I see how you could maybe find a few similarities (i.e. they’re more likely to be wealthy than someone who lives near 15th and Walnut), but it’s incredibly unfair to assume there are only two groups. There are inner-suburbs, outer-suburbs, home owners, renters, those with kids, those without, and the list goes on. It’s apples to oranges to pears to lettuce.
I’m pretty sure we don’t have apartheid-level segregation in Milwaukee. The mix of races in my apartment building proves that to be nothing other than a Sykes-esque proclamation.
I can’t speak to your second point, other than I don’t think the comments seen on the Journal Sentinel reflect reality by-in large. I can’t name any businesses that have left (or haven’t come) or people who have fled for racial reasons, but I don’t have the right perspective and opportunities to actually know that for-sure.
I’m interested in hearing a lot more about the residency requirement idea. The only way I can conceive of removing the residency requirement is to get a lot back in terms of pension funding (i.e. converting it to a 401K system). Does this make segregation better or worse? I don’t have an answer there. Would be interesting for the Public Policy Forum to do a study on cities that have it versus those that do not.
I take issue with the fact that west of the river is somehow the real city, and anything east of the river must be play land. They’re both pieces of the whole. Certainly a donut hole economy is not productive, but how do you break it? I’m all for the ideas of the proposed SEED school or something along the lines of the Harlem Children’s Zone (of which the latter I know admittedly less than I probably should). Those systems seem to be the ticket to helping those who are currently failing in MPS. Mayoral control seemed to be a step in the right direction, unfortunately it stalled for a lot of different reasons.
At the same time, you can’t fault the City of Milwaukee for plowing ahead with initiatives like the downtown plan and streetcar. You can only ignore your strong neighborhoods for a short period of time before they to become weak neighborhoods.
It does seem that the City has been weak at planning for the edge neighborhoods (edge of downtown). The Haymarket Square aspect of the downtown plan starts to nibble at that, but there is a lot of work that could be done with better planning for Harambee and some neighborhoods just west of the I-43.
@Dan – I took it as an encouraging sign for Holton that WHEDA-funded housing (45 units) was approved for Holton and Brown for the lot that currently contains the unoccupied funeral home. Haven’t seen any designs for the project, but that should be decent housing for a lot of different groups of people at below-market prices that won’t add any extreme gentrification pressure.
@SS – Did you hit up the Laclede’s Landing area at all just north of the Arch? That’s where we found the post-game party to be at. It’s Water Street on steroids, with historic character thrown in.
I’ve yet to have Urbanspoon lead me to somewhere worthwhile.
@SS – Right, and I’m assuming in my article that it was locked down.
Worth noting on Kohl’s donation to UW, the Kohl Center is not an NBA caliber venue and would have many of the same revenue generating difficulties the Bradley Center has. It would take a substantially larger donation to build the venue that is needed.
I would disagree, I think once we get something in place it’ll be hard to change it. I think Doyle and others feel the same way.
I’m also a proponent of eliminating direct Milwaukee County control of the transit system. It seems to me things will be better fiscally and service-wise if the city has a vote, and that the system isn’t used as a bargaining chip between the County Board and County Executive (regardless of who is in office on either side).
The proposal Doyle used his veto powers on would not have created a true regional transit authority, and instead would have left Milwaukee County as an island. It also did not include really solid provisions to merge the “bus” authority with the KRM Commuter Rail authority (SERTA).
It actually seems to me that there are less than last year, but my measure is in no way scientific. I’m sure they will have a report out at some point in the next six months.
Shouldn’t be a problem unless the bus is full. Driver might look at you weird, but unless the bus is standing room only, you should be good. Getting them on the bus might be a different story, depending on their size.
By the time you get to 4, I can see how it can be cheaper to drive. Not more comfortable and laid back, but certainly cheaper.
I don’t think the service will ever be priced to be cheap from Brookfield to downtown Milwaukee, that’s not the type of passenger they are seeking. If commuter rail was put in place, that’s the ideal case where the pricing will match. Likewise you don’t see anyone take the train from downtown Milwaukee to the Milwaukee airport, the pricing and service just isn’t setup in that fashion.
@David – I don’t get your point as it applies to this project. The buildings have no parking right now, which is a huge problem in your mind. The new building will have parking, but it will cost an amount you appear to believe to be too significant.
The Third Ward ramp still costs money. You have to pay to park in it (and the city had to spend a lot of money to build it).
How does this apply to this project? You describe it as lose or lose situation.
@David – How does The Loop in Chicago function? Your logic implies that parking costs would keep anyone from being able to hire anyone else.
It is entirely possible the owner will do nothing, as that has visibly happened in the past. Streets where investment has happened, like Milwaukee Street, have managed to find economical use for historic buildings. Milwaukee Street is just across Wisconsin and functioning quite well.
Even if they were to build this, parking would likely still cost near $100/month. It would only contribute to what you view as a “parking shortage”.
If you were to put this project on an equal sized plot of land that was currently a parking lot, you would end up with a net gain of parking stalls. There is a parking garage in the project.
I’m curious to see if you can find any data that indicates if there is a parking shortage in downtown Milwaukee. Seems to me, as a downtown worker, there are places to park all over, they’re just not free.
@Sal Why does that situation you described as so dire work so well a block over on Milwaukee Street?
If you look back at the Milwaukee Street district’s history you’ll find that the buildings were bought from someone who wanted to cash out as a group and subsequently parceled out to individual owners. It took someone in the middle to purchase the buildings and piece them out, that hasn’t happened on this site, at least not yet.
This project is looking for a TIF, if I’m an alderman, I might look to improve a parking with TIF dollars before I razed a bunch of buildings to make way for one of barely more size. A TIF seems to make much more sense for the Rainer Properties project.
I happen to believe if they brought their buildings to the Common Council for financial support via a small TIF for repairs (exactly what was done at 735 N Water, a building with no parking) that Alderman Bauman would go to bat to preserve the buildings. I don’t think there is any evidence that that has been tried for these buildings yet.
@Tim How much impact would a six-story building have on the skyline? How are the old buildings unsafe?
In regards to Chicago, their situation is quite unique thanks to the fire.
I will definitely agree with you that newer is sometimes better, but that doesn’t make an old building bad. What about this project for one of the many surface parking lots downtown?
Gardens for Grand Avenue Mall?
August 28th, 2010 at 4:01 pmFrank,
What exactly is the problem with African Americans?
It's 11 p.m., Clear The Street
July 29th, 2010 at 12:16 pm@Keith
Sorry for your problem posting a comment. We post every comment that isn’t clearly spam or slander.
I was certainly there, as the photo proves (and my lighter wallet). There was a golf cart going back and forth blaring a megaphone siren, encouraging people to clear the road. I left Brady Street around midnight that night, and didn’t notice when traffic actually returned. The street clearing did start a few minutes after 11. The point isn’t that cars return right away, but that the streets are cleared with that apparent intention.
My greater point is that if cars did not return to the street until 1:30 or 3, why kick the people off the street at 11? If the area they’re occupying needs to be reduced, do that. If not just let them be while stage removal goes on.
In no way am I criticizing Brady Street Festival, or any festival. I love to attend them. The policy of clearing the people off the street at 11 to me just seems misguided. If there is a need for it, I can’t figure it out, but every festival seems to observe it.
The Bastille Days examples I referenced do include cars returning before midnight.
It's 11 p.m., Clear The Street
July 27th, 2010 at 9:41 amThe festivals I’ve had first-hand closing experience with are Summer Solstice on North Avenue, Riversplash, Summer Sizzle in the Third Ward, Brady Street Festival, and Bastille Days. I’ve been at Locust Street Festival, but never late enough to know when it shuts down (although I assume it’s 11 p.m.).
I’ve tried to ask security guards and police why the streets must be opened, and the most frequent answer I get is “that’s the rule.” I’ve never been able to find the rule, so I was hoping this post might bring it to light.
High Speed Rail is Coming to Milwaukee
July 25th, 2010 at 8:45 pm@Kevin – Nothing really news-wise, but more focus on perspective of the entire Midwest plan (and how that compares internationally).
Cambridge Commons Tour
July 19th, 2010 at 11:26 am@digitalhermit – Unfortunately, it would appear that the dorm has many of the amenities the coffee shop would offer, including the coffee shop (The Grind) itself. The only challenge might that you probably couldn’t get coffee at 3 a.m. (but the OP across the street might solve that).
City Announces New Downtown Plan
July 8th, 2010 at 5:44 pm@Dan – My apartment anecdote was admittedly far weaker than any census data. Apartheid though implies absolute separation, and my apartment note just shows that it’s not absolutely exasperated. Far too much segregation though.
If a black middle class is the missing piece (or at least a key missing piece) in making race relations better in Milwaukee, how do we as a city foster such a group? What are the stepping stones? Something tells me Bronzeville doesn’t make that short list.
Amusing look at our article numbers. The numbers are skewed slightly, because the additional neighborhood breakdowns weren’t introduced until recently (East Side used to encompass everything north of Ogden). The point stays the same though.
In our defense, we’re not aiming to cover the day-to-day of neighborhood’s as much as we are the urban built-environment. We have a long list of articles we hope/plan to write envisioning the growth of the neighborhood’s you mentioned, but they’re incredibly more time intensive to write as they require a lot more planning and blue sky thought than simple reactions to existing proposals. As time passes we’ll broaden our coverage area to the areas that border the northwestern corner of downtown (Alison will certainly appreciate it so I quit verbally detailing my plans to her whenever we walk around Hillside, Haymarket Square, Avenues West, Brewers Hill).
Our coverage of downtown hasn’t been as detailed as I would like either, so it’s not that we have all kinds of extra time. Stuff falls through the cracks that we would like to cover in the areas some would say we cover too much.
I learned about the SEED idea too late to be a quality advocate for it, was disappointing to watch it get snubbed in the state budget process.
City Announces New Downtown Plan
July 8th, 2010 at 3:25 pm@Nate – I will take your bait, as someone who lives East of the Milwaukee River. I think it’s worth largely ignoring your assumption that East Siders are like suburbanites (and that suburbanites must be ones commenting on the JS). I see how you could maybe find a few similarities (i.e. they’re more likely to be wealthy than someone who lives near 15th and Walnut), but it’s incredibly unfair to assume there are only two groups. There are inner-suburbs, outer-suburbs, home owners, renters, those with kids, those without, and the list goes on. It’s apples to oranges to pears to lettuce.
I’m pretty sure we don’t have apartheid-level segregation in Milwaukee. The mix of races in my apartment building proves that to be nothing other than a Sykes-esque proclamation.
I can’t speak to your second point, other than I don’t think the comments seen on the Journal Sentinel reflect reality by-in large. I can’t name any businesses that have left (or haven’t come) or people who have fled for racial reasons, but I don’t have the right perspective and opportunities to actually know that for-sure.
I’m interested in hearing a lot more about the residency requirement idea. The only way I can conceive of removing the residency requirement is to get a lot back in terms of pension funding (i.e. converting it to a 401K system). Does this make segregation better or worse? I don’t have an answer there. Would be interesting for the Public Policy Forum to do a study on cities that have it versus those that do not.
I take issue with the fact that west of the river is somehow the real city, and anything east of the river must be play land. They’re both pieces of the whole. Certainly a donut hole economy is not productive, but how do you break it? I’m all for the ideas of the proposed SEED school or something along the lines of the Harlem Children’s Zone (of which the latter I know admittedly less than I probably should). Those systems seem to be the ticket to helping those who are currently failing in MPS. Mayoral control seemed to be a step in the right direction, unfortunately it stalled for a lot of different reasons.
At the same time, you can’t fault the City of Milwaukee for plowing ahead with initiatives like the downtown plan and streetcar. You can only ignore your strong neighborhoods for a short period of time before they to become weak neighborhoods.
It does seem that the City has been weak at planning for the edge neighborhoods (edge of downtown). The Haymarket Square aspect of the downtown plan starts to nibble at that, but there is a lot of work that could be done with better planning for Harambee and some neighborhoods just west of the I-43.
A Small MPS Reform Could Save Money, Add to the Tax Base, and Enhance Competition
July 2nd, 2010 at 10:47 am@Dan – I took it as an encouraging sign for Holton that WHEDA-funded housing (45 units) was approved for Holton and Brown for the lot that currently contains the unoccupied funeral home. Haven’t seen any designs for the project, but that should be decent housing for a lot of different groups of people at below-market prices that won’t add any extreme gentrification pressure.
Urban Tour Guide: St. Louis
June 25th, 2010 at 4:52 pm@SS – Did you hit up the Laclede’s Landing area at all just north of the Arch? That’s where we found the post-game party to be at. It’s Water Street on steroids, with historic character thrown in.
I’ve yet to have Urbanspoon lead me to somewhere worthwhile.
Urban Tour Guide: St. Louis
June 25th, 2010 at 2:33 pm@Maria
I’ve had a good time every time I’ve gone, be it winter or summer. Megabus does go to St. Louis.
$1 Bus Fares in Milwaukee - An Idea Worth Exploring
May 28th, 2010 at 11:37 am@SS – I’m going to be print this out as proof that we actually agreed on something. As always, thanks for reading and commenting.
$1 Bus Fares in Milwaukee - An Idea Worth Exploring
May 28th, 2010 at 10:16 am@Patrick – Part of the plan was to reduce fares if it would increase ridership, thereby making up most, if not all, of the lost revenue.
Megabus Service Between Milwaukee and Chicago Drastically Cut
May 24th, 2010 at 8:38 am@Floyd
There is service between Penn Station in NYC and Boston, not sure about NJ directly.
Tear It Down - US Cellular Arena vs Bradley Center
May 19th, 2010 at 12:30 pm@SS – Right, and I’m assuming in my article that it was locked down.
Worth noting on Kohl’s donation to UW, the Kohl Center is not an NBA caliber venue and would have many of the same revenue generating difficulties the Bradley Center has. It would take a substantially larger donation to build the venue that is needed.
RTA - On Hold For Now
April 28th, 2010 at 10:02 am@Eric
I would disagree, I think once we get something in place it’ll be hard to change it. I think Doyle and others feel the same way.
I’m also a proponent of eliminating direct Milwaukee County control of the transit system. It seems to me things will be better fiscally and service-wise if the city has a vote, and that the system isn’t used as a bargaining chip between the County Board and County Executive (regardless of who is in office on either side).
RTA - On Hold For Now
April 27th, 2010 at 10:50 am@Eric
The proposal Doyle used his veto powers on would not have created a true regional transit authority, and instead would have left Milwaukee County as an island. It also did not include really solid provisions to merge the “bus” authority with the KRM Commuter Rail authority (SERTA).
Friday Photos Friday, 26. March 2010
April 4th, 2010 at 10:54 pm@Barry
It actually seems to me that there are less than last year, but my measure is in no way scientific. I’m sure they will have a report out at some point in the next six months.
Free Bus Rides on March 17th in Milwaukee
March 11th, 2010 at 1:32 pm@Pete
Shouldn’t be a problem unless the bus is full. Driver might look at you weird, but unless the bus is standing room only, you should be good. Getting them on the bus might be a different story, depending on their size.
Waukesha County Will Love High-Speed Rail
March 11th, 2010 at 1:30 pm@Pete
By the time you get to 4, I can see how it can be cheaper to drive. Not more comfortable and laid back, but certainly cheaper.
I don’t think the service will ever be priced to be cheap from Brookfield to downtown Milwaukee, that’s not the type of passenger they are seeking. If commuter rail was put in place, that’s the ideal case where the pricing will match. Likewise you don’t see anyone take the train from downtown Milwaukee to the Milwaukee airport, the pricing and service just isn’t setup in that fashion.
Street Food... Finally.
March 8th, 2010 at 11:51 am@Ron – You can find a lot of them on Twitter. I would start with Streetza Pizza which is available at twitter.com/streetzapizza
No no no... No!
March 3rd, 2010 at 11:54 am@David – I don’t get your point as it applies to this project. The buildings have no parking right now, which is a huge problem in your mind. The new building will have parking, but it will cost an amount you appear to believe to be too significant.
The Third Ward ramp still costs money. You have to pay to park in it (and the city had to spend a lot of money to build it).
How does this apply to this project? You describe it as lose or lose situation.
No no no... No!
March 2nd, 2010 at 4:37 pm@David – How does The Loop in Chicago function? Your logic implies that parking costs would keep anyone from being able to hire anyone else.
It is entirely possible the owner will do nothing, as that has visibly happened in the past. Streets where investment has happened, like Milwaukee Street, have managed to find economical use for historic buildings. Milwaukee Street is just across Wisconsin and functioning quite well.
Even if they were to build this, parking would likely still cost near $100/month. It would only contribute to what you view as a “parking shortage”.
No no no... No!
March 2nd, 2010 at 3:36 pm@David
If you were to put this project on an equal sized plot of land that was currently a parking lot, you would end up with a net gain of parking stalls. There is a parking garage in the project.
I’m curious to see if you can find any data that indicates if there is a parking shortage in downtown Milwaukee. Seems to me, as a downtown worker, there are places to park all over, they’re just not free.
No no no... No!
March 2nd, 2010 at 2:49 pm@Sal Why does that situation you described as so dire work so well a block over on Milwaukee Street?
If you look back at the Milwaukee Street district’s history you’ll find that the buildings were bought from someone who wanted to cash out as a group and subsequently parceled out to individual owners. It took someone in the middle to purchase the buildings and piece them out, that hasn’t happened on this site, at least not yet.
This project is looking for a TIF, if I’m an alderman, I might look to improve a parking with TIF dollars before I razed a bunch of buildings to make way for one of barely more size. A TIF seems to make much more sense for the Rainer Properties project.
I happen to believe if they brought their buildings to the Common Council for financial support via a small TIF for repairs (exactly what was done at 735 N Water, a building with no parking) that Alderman Bauman would go to bat to preserve the buildings. I don’t think there is any evidence that that has been tried for these buildings yet.
No no no... No!
March 2nd, 2010 at 2:05 pm@Tim How much impact would a six-story building have on the skyline? How are the old buildings unsafe?
In regards to Chicago, their situation is quite unique thanks to the fire.
I will definitely agree with you that newer is sometimes better, but that doesn’t make an old building bad. What about this project for one of the many surface parking lots downtown?