My thoughtful criticism is that I don’t care for it and would not live there. But others are free to do as they please, some people like to eat at Denny’s and Applebee’s, I prefer something more unique for my food and architecture.
As far as the publications, I think both sides could use some restraint and professionalism. People can agree to disagree in civil manner. Let’s face it; none of these buildings are a Mies van der Rohe or a Robert Stern. Both Modernism and traditional design are pleasant when done well, even better when done in juxtaposition.
I don’t think we are diminishing the importance of these other factors that lead to obesity, because they are numerous and important. But the scientific method really is to hold all other variables constant and vary one to see how it affects the equation. That is look at it with a totally analytical mind. There also is the whole eminent level of how the built environment depicts cultures priorities and how these things affect people physically and psychologically.
“We make our buildings and afterward they make us. They regulate the course of our lives.”
-Winston Churchill
You are confusing inner city, which is a term that refers to poor neighborhoods, with compact and traditionally designed, they are not synonymous. Poor people typically do not get healthy food to eat because only highly processed food is available in their local area and they do not have car to go and find healthy food.
There are a lot of variables in this equation, which is why the comparison is on exercise only; a person would need to write a book to analyze all the inputs.
Incremental development gives a lot of freedom to the individuals in each neighborhood to create unique places of identity that reflects the character of the local population. This also incorporates all kind of things going on in Milwaukee like urban agricultural movement.
Good point, I would just add that heating lamps can also extend the use of these outdoor patios by several months a year resulting in more pedestrian activity.
I have read the whole plan of Chicago, it has great illustrations and Burnham’s ideas of creating vistas in the city of Chicago would have improved the aesthetics of the city. While Burnham is a great manager of talent, his designs rely heavily on the past work of others. Sullivan was much more original in his thinking, if you happen to read his books (more related to architecture). However, if someone would really like to learn more about vistas they should read Camillo Sitte. If they would like to learn more about city planning read John Nolen. I find these two are more knowledgeable than Burnham on these subjects.
Yes Wikipedia is a poor source, but is very convenient for people click when they are surfing this piece on the web. I first read about this in Daniel Burnham’s “Plan for Chicago” when I was in graduate school and did double check it with Wiki as I wrote this piece. After doing some extensive checking at the library the best book to look at is the Great Chicago Fire by Robert Cromie. There is a great map in there that shows the baseball stadium and buildings related to the railroad, in the park. If you are looking to see if it is the oldest part of Chicago, it is not, Fort Dearborn was north of this on the river. Montgomery Ward sued the City of Chicago in order make them remove the buildings that were built in this area after the fire, smart man. But I think you have taken us off the point of this piece.
I would argue, due to the street layout, that we have the opportunity to create a one of the greatest linear public spaces in America, if executed correctly. People like to be in pleasant pedestrian friendly spaces, the aesthetics of the buildings and how they affect the public spaces has a profound, even if not a conscious, effect on where people like to visit. It is common place in Europe but some American examples are State Street in Madison, Lincoln Road in Miami Beach and the San Antonio riverwalk. They have recently closed off Times Square in New York to traffic and we will see the same effect there. It would also connect almost all areas of downtown, including the Park East, via foot traffic.
William Whyte did a lot of work on studying these social phenomenons in his Project for Public Spaces in the 80’s. I read one of his books “The Social Life of Small Urban Spaces” as research for my Master’s thesis. Very interesting please check it out.
Young adults will not move here without an affordable, respectable transit system that can support an active urban core. Look at what the L does for Chicago and subway systems do for class A cities around the world.
Milwaukee’s buildings are a part of its context. The dialogue is how buildings evolve over time, so it requires buildings from the various time periods. Starting with the buildings from the late 1800’s early 1900’s all the way through contemporary buildings which point the way to the future. Their conversation gives the city character. Milwaukee has a great opportunity to enhance this character by infilling and creating a real core. When I go on vacation I want to go where all the action is in the center of whatever city I am going to. A stroll north down Milwaukee’s river walk could take tourists on a literal progression through time.
I think this is an issue that has been way too understated, until this post. The reality is; more parking, more cars, wider streets and less density that all feed on each other creating more wasted time and energy. Taxing them out of existence would be great and ironic, since it was lower taxes on lots, as compared with buildings, that brought them into existence.
A real independent parking study should be done downtown, if one has been done please tell me I would like to see it. To me the logic is pretty clear; the cost of a parking spot downtown is way below the cost of creating it. Econ 101 tells me that there is way too may spots in the market if the price is below the production cost. A person should be expected to pay at least the production cost of what they use. By subsidizing parking and making it cheep, a false market has been created where everyone thinks they are entitled to a spot downtown as if they were pulling into their garage at home, which is fine if you can pay the TRUE cost.
I do think we need to have available parking for large events, but people should expect to pay for it. If you can’t pay, then take the mass transit. That will help to reduce demand and bring the right balance to the city.
Antonio,
It would be nice if the link to your map worked, I would like to see the map. If you zoom in on this map: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Great_Chicago_Fire_map.jpg
You can clearly see that the streets extended to the east side of Michigan Avenue and that area was burned by the fire down to Congress Street.
It is also know by: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grant_Park_(Chicago)
“The legal restrictions prohibiting any buildings in the park were ignored in the 1800’s, as various civic buildings were sited there.”
Perhaps if I knew what you are looking for I could be of more help to you. Why do you ask for the references?
CJ,
I agree with many of the points you brought up about Chicago. I try to point this out in: http://urbanmilwaukee.com/2010/02/04/downtown-history-presents-opportunity-in-milwaukee/
But I also think that Chicago can be an asset to Milwaukee if the image of Milwaukee compliments that of Chicago. What can you not get in Chicago? A shifting grid of streets creating vistas terminated by visually pleasing buildings or monuments. Areas of pedestrian friendliness in the middle of the city surrounded by shops and restaurants where you can relax and have a coffee. Not just a big public space by the lake. You are right, Milwaukee cannot compete with the American metropolis skyscraper image of Chicago, but there is more than one type of American city. A mid-sized city where people can stroll from public space to public space within the city, catch a show in the art district or walk down a boulevard and see the lake and museum. We have a great lakefront; I love the MAM, summer fest, etc. But Chicago will always trump us at the lakefront and building height that is their image. We need to stress the things Chicago can’t change: Shifting street grid and mid-city public spaces that are all interconnected by pleasant streets. I know I am asking a lot, but at this point what is the downside?
I think everyone wants development downtown. The question is how do we develop in a way that is sustainable and catalyzes people to live and work downtown? That is what will spur other development, and the benefits that come with it. So 40 years from now we don’t have to talk about tearing down a 6 story glass box that now is an “eye soar” because it is out of style and is not proper for one of our “best” streets.
Yes, at this point in time it might be better than what we have there. But is it the best we can do? I would have to say no. Right now, we need to get highest value out of everything we build and I don’t see tearing down buildings as the way to do that.
@ Dave,
I don’t usually like pointed posts, but this one is right on the money. It is absurd to be tearing down buildings with all the vacant land downtown. If we keep doing that we will just another anywhere USA city with no history. Using new buildings that enhance Milwaukee’s history and image by responding to their context, not destroying it, is where we need to go.
@ Daron,
I think we all agree that sea’s of asphalt are hideous and should be in filled in some way. But I think the point is that Milwaukee, wither you like the city or not, needs to build on its strengths. One of the big ones we have is access to a large fresh water supply. So we should stay positive and focus on common solutions. For instance, Ancient Rome’s had very fresh water. Why? Because it traveled down aqueducts to the city and the tumbling of the water helped to purify it. There is no reason why water would need to go from a fountain into the sewer. Maybe a fountain can showcase a new method of water treatment. The city can partner with a university or company to design it and it can be a public example of cooperation and technology. Then we can sell that technology to Singapore so they can treat their water more efficiently.
I am glad to hear that people are thinking about this. The current and future upside potential of being the fresh water city is enormous. Seen abroad for years, the recent decision that stopped Atlanta from taking fresh water from Lake Lanier is just the beginning of things to come. In a sustainable world communities should only be as large as their local resources allow them to be. That is why all these cities were founded where they were, because the benefits of having an abundant water source. I also see great potential for monuments around the lake, river and city that express the intent in built form. This shows the cities dedication to the subject and makes companies feel that they are not at the forefront of fresh water tech if they are not here. The educational institutions (MSOE, UWM & Marquette) are working diligently to promote this. It is not very often you can find this kind of common ground with so many of societies institutions, we should run with it.
I like the idea and I like the fact that new businesses are coming to Milwaukee and Wisconsin. I do, however, believe in our innovative spirit and that spirit in the country as a whole. Madrid is a great city; we walked day and night there. It’s all is centered around their core, Plaza Mayor and Puerta del Sol close by, with nice walk able streets connecting outward to other public spaces. Milwaukee has the potential to become a great walk able city but we need to use our innovation to establish that continuous pedestrian core suited uniquely for our city.
It is going to be exciting, great to see creation in process. I spoke with one of the structural engineers and he said it is getting really close to being under way. We’re hoping to take some of the students over to see the foundations going in.
@ Joe,
I agree with the notion that there have been many squandered opportunities during the peak years of the boom and we should learn from them for the next time around. None of the points made in the write up are meant as absolutes. Part of Grant Park was formerly Lake Park, part is landfill and part was buildings and urban fabric. In Cleveland a good portion of the original city was razed to make way for Burnham’s Group Plan of 1903. I am not that familiar with Cincinnati but I will have to take a look.
I am new to the conversation, but think I might have some useful insight. The HSR will be used to support intermediate range travelers, up to around 500 miles. Longer distances will still be serviced by air transit. These longer distance travelers are expecting longer travel times and transferring between transportation types, so having to take a light rail to the airport is not a big deal.
The HSR will get the most ridership by connecting urban centers. So the station should be located as close to the center as logically possible and be designed as an inter or multi modal station where people have the choice of what transit to take. I think a light rail around Madison connecting to this station is a good idea because once people arrive from the HSR they feel that they have arrived in Madison. Adding an extra trip from the airport is not the arrival experience that encourages ridership in the intermediate distance; people will drive in order to feel like they arrive where they need to be.
I am not filmier with the location that Mr. Gore proposes, but local people usually know best. The train platforms will need to be on the order of 1400 feet long for HSR, but a lot of these problems can be solved with creative solutions.
What the WDOT should really do is support a design competition for the new station to bring in ideas and spur conversation about the best solution.
BreakWater Fiasco
August 16th, 2010 at 4:30 pmMy thoughtful criticism is that I don’t care for it and would not live there. But others are free to do as they please, some people like to eat at Denny’s and Applebee’s, I prefer something more unique for my food and architecture.
As far as the publications, I think both sides could use some restraint and professionalism. People can agree to disagree in civil manner. Let’s face it; none of these buildings are a Mies van der Rohe or a Robert Stern. Both Modernism and traditional design are pleasant when done well, even better when done in juxtaposition.
Obesity & Urbanism
August 14th, 2010 at 12:03 pmThat is a very good paper, glad to see a former Wisconsin politician in it.
Obesity & Urbanism
August 13th, 2010 at 10:49 amI don’t think we are diminishing the importance of these other factors that lead to obesity, because they are numerous and important. But the scientific method really is to hold all other variables constant and vary one to see how it affects the equation. That is look at it with a totally analytical mind. There also is the whole eminent level of how the built environment depicts cultures priorities and how these things affect people physically and psychologically.
“We make our buildings and afterward they make us. They regulate the course of our lives.”
-Winston Churchill
Obesity & Urbanism
August 12th, 2010 at 3:40 pmSS,
You are confusing inner city, which is a term that refers to poor neighborhoods, with compact and traditionally designed, they are not synonymous. Poor people typically do not get healthy food to eat because only highly processed food is available in their local area and they do not have car to go and find healthy food.
There are a lot of variables in this equation, which is why the comparison is on exercise only; a person would need to write a book to analyze all the inputs.
Urban Husbandry is Alive and Well in Milwaukee
August 12th, 2010 at 11:55 amIncremental development gives a lot of freedom to the individuals in each neighborhood to create unique places of identity that reflects the character of the local population. This also incorporates all kind of things going on in Milwaukee like urban agricultural movement.
Great article!
Milwaukee Downtown Dining Week Starts Tomorrow
June 2nd, 2010 at 10:05 pmI am trying it for lunch tomorrow so we will see. I make sure to tip well;)
An Urban Benefit to the Smoking Ban
June 1st, 2010 at 12:04 pmGood point, I would just add that heating lamps can also extend the use of these outdoor patios by several months a year resulting in more pedestrian activity.
The Plan of Chicago - Book Review
April 30th, 2010 at 9:29 amI have read the whole plan of Chicago, it has great illustrations and Burnham’s ideas of creating vistas in the city of Chicago would have improved the aesthetics of the city. While Burnham is a great manager of talent, his designs rely heavily on the past work of others. Sullivan was much more original in his thinking, if you happen to read his books (more related to architecture). However, if someone would really like to learn more about vistas they should read Camillo Sitte. If they would like to learn more about city planning read John Nolen. I find these two are more knowledgeable than Burnham on these subjects.
Downtown History Presents Opportunity in Milwaukee
April 27th, 2010 at 3:26 pmYes Wikipedia is a poor source, but is very convenient for people click when they are surfing this piece on the web. I first read about this in Daniel Burnham’s “Plan for Chicago” when I was in graduate school and did double check it with Wiki as I wrote this piece. After doing some extensive checking at the library the best book to look at is the Great Chicago Fire by Robert Cromie. There is a great map in there that shows the baseball stadium and buildings related to the railroad, in the park. If you are looking to see if it is the oldest part of Chicago, it is not, Fort Dearborn was north of this on the river. Montgomery Ward sued the City of Chicago in order make them remove the buildings that were built in this area after the fire, smart man. But I think you have taken us off the point of this piece.
I would argue, due to the street layout, that we have the opportunity to create a one of the greatest linear public spaces in America, if executed correctly. People like to be in pleasant pedestrian friendly spaces, the aesthetics of the buildings and how they affect the public spaces has a profound, even if not a conscious, effect on where people like to visit. It is common place in Europe but some American examples are State Street in Madison, Lincoln Road in Miami Beach and the San Antonio riverwalk. They have recently closed off Times Square in New York to traffic and we will see the same effect there. It would also connect almost all areas of downtown, including the Park East, via foot traffic.
William Whyte did a lot of work on studying these social phenomenons in his Project for Public Spaces in the 80’s. I read one of his books “The Social Life of Small Urban Spaces” as research for my Master’s thesis. Very interesting please check it out.
RTA Will Be a Last Minute Decision
April 22nd, 2010 at 7:59 pmYoung adults will not move here without an affordable, respectable transit system that can support an active urban core. Look at what the L does for Chicago and subway systems do for class A cities around the world.
Authentic Identity
April 14th, 2010 at 11:16 amMilwaukee’s buildings are a part of its context. The dialogue is how buildings evolve over time, so it requires buildings from the various time periods. Starting with the buildings from the late 1800’s early 1900’s all the way through contemporary buildings which point the way to the future. Their conversation gives the city character. Milwaukee has a great opportunity to enhance this character by infilling and creating a real core. When I go on vacation I want to go where all the action is in the center of whatever city I am going to. A stroll north down Milwaukee’s river walk could take tourists on a literal progression through time.
Surface Parking Lots are a Priority to be Developed
April 8th, 2010 at 8:41 pmI think this is an issue that has been way too understated, until this post. The reality is; more parking, more cars, wider streets and less density that all feed on each other creating more wasted time and energy. Taxing them out of existence would be great and ironic, since it was lower taxes on lots, as compared with buildings, that brought them into existence.
A real independent parking study should be done downtown, if one has been done please tell me I would like to see it. To me the logic is pretty clear; the cost of a parking spot downtown is way below the cost of creating it. Econ 101 tells me that there is way too may spots in the market if the price is below the production cost. A person should be expected to pay at least the production cost of what they use. By subsidizing parking and making it cheep, a false market has been created where everyone thinks they are entitled to a spot downtown as if they were pulling into their garage at home, which is fine if you can pay the TRUE cost.
I do think we need to have available parking for large events, but people should expect to pay for it. If you can’t pay, then take the mass transit. That will help to reduce demand and bring the right balance to the city.
Downtown History Presents Opportunity in Milwaukee
March 18th, 2010 at 8:02 amAntonio,
It would be nice if the link to your map worked, I would like to see the map. If you zoom in on this map:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Great_Chicago_Fire_map.jpg
You can clearly see that the streets extended to the east side of Michigan Avenue and that area was burned by the fire down to Congress Street.
It is also know by:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grant_Park_(Chicago)
“The legal restrictions prohibiting any buildings in the park were ignored in the 1800’s, as various civic buildings were sited there.”
Perhaps if I knew what you are looking for I could be of more help to you. Why do you ask for the references?
A Brand for Milwaukee?
March 16th, 2010 at 9:13 amCJ,
I agree with many of the points you brought up about Chicago. I try to point this out in:
http://urbanmilwaukee.com/2010/02/04/downtown-history-presents-opportunity-in-milwaukee/
But I also think that Chicago can be an asset to Milwaukee if the image of Milwaukee compliments that of Chicago. What can you not get in Chicago? A shifting grid of streets creating vistas terminated by visually pleasing buildings or monuments. Areas of pedestrian friendliness in the middle of the city surrounded by shops and restaurants where you can relax and have a coffee. Not just a big public space by the lake. You are right, Milwaukee cannot compete with the American metropolis skyscraper image of Chicago, but there is more than one type of American city. A mid-sized city where people can stroll from public space to public space within the city, catch a show in the art district or walk down a boulevard and see the lake and museum. We have a great lakefront; I love the MAM, summer fest, etc. But Chicago will always trump us at the lakefront and building height that is their image. We need to stress the things Chicago can’t change: Shifting street grid and mid-city public spaces that are all interconnected by pleasant streets. I know I am asking a lot, but at this point what is the downside?
No no no... No!
March 4th, 2010 at 9:55 amI think everyone wants development downtown. The question is how do we develop in a way that is sustainable and catalyzes people to live and work downtown? That is what will spur other development, and the benefits that come with it. So 40 years from now we don’t have to talk about tearing down a 6 story glass box that now is an “eye soar” because it is out of style and is not proper for one of our “best” streets.
Yes, at this point in time it might be better than what we have there. But is it the best we can do? I would have to say no. Right now, we need to get highest value out of everything we build and I don’t see tearing down buildings as the way to do that.
No no no... No!
March 2nd, 2010 at 11:17 am@ Dave,
I don’t usually like pointed posts, but this one is right on the money. It is absurd to be tearing down buildings with all the vacant land downtown. If we keep doing that we will just another anywhere USA city with no history. Using new buildings that enhance Milwaukee’s history and image by responding to their context, not destroying it, is where we need to go.
A Brand for Milwaukee?
February 23rd, 2010 at 8:11 am@ Daron,
I think we all agree that sea’s of asphalt are hideous and should be in filled in some way. But I think the point is that Milwaukee, wither you like the city or not, needs to build on its strengths. One of the big ones we have is access to a large fresh water supply. So we should stay positive and focus on common solutions. For instance, Ancient Rome’s had very fresh water. Why? Because it traveled down aqueducts to the city and the tumbling of the water helped to purify it. There is no reason why water would need to go from a fountain into the sewer. Maybe a fountain can showcase a new method of water treatment. The city can partner with a university or company to design it and it can be a public example of cooperation and technology. Then we can sell that technology to Singapore so they can treat their water more efficiently.
A Brand for Milwaukee?
February 22nd, 2010 at 3:18 pmI am glad to hear that people are thinking about this. The current and future upside potential of being the fresh water city is enormous. Seen abroad for years, the recent decision that stopped Atlanta from taking fresh water from Lake Lanier is just the beginning of things to come. In a sustainable world communities should only be as large as their local resources allow them to be. That is why all these cities were founded where they were, because the benefits of having an abundant water source. I also see great potential for monuments around the lake, river and city that express the intent in built form. This shows the cities dedication to the subject and makes companies feel that they are not at the forefront of fresh water tech if they are not here. The educational institutions (MSOE, UWM & Marquette) are working diligently to promote this. It is not very often you can find this kind of common ground with so many of societies institutions, we should run with it.
Milwaukee To Become Little Madrid?
February 19th, 2010 at 10:46 amI like the idea and I like the fact that new businesses are coming to Milwaukee and Wisconsin. I do, however, believe in our innovative spirit and that spirit in the country as a whole. Madrid is a great city; we walked day and night there. It’s all is centered around their core, Plaza Mayor and Puerta del Sol close by, with nice walk able streets connecting outward to other public spaces. Milwaukee has the potential to become a great walk able city but we need to use our innovation to establish that continuous pedestrian core suited uniquely for our city.
Activity at The Moderne Site
February 11th, 2010 at 4:56 pmIt is going to be exciting, great to see creation in process. I spoke with one of the structural engineers and he said it is getting really close to being under way. We’re hoping to take some of the students over to see the foundations going in.
Downtown History Presents Opportunity in Milwaukee
February 5th, 2010 at 12:16 pm@ Joe,
I agree with the notion that there have been many squandered opportunities during the peak years of the boom and we should learn from them for the next time around. None of the points made in the write up are meant as absolutes. Part of Grant Park was formerly Lake Park, part is landfill and part was buildings and urban fabric. In Cleveland a good portion of the original city was razed to make way for Burnham’s Group Plan of 1903. I am not that familiar with Cincinnati but I will have to take a look.
Where Should The Madison High-Speed Rail Train Station Go?
February 4th, 2010 at 10:11 amI am new to the conversation, but think I might have some useful insight. The HSR will be used to support intermediate range travelers, up to around 500 miles. Longer distances will still be serviced by air transit. These longer distance travelers are expecting longer travel times and transferring between transportation types, so having to take a light rail to the airport is not a big deal.
The HSR will get the most ridership by connecting urban centers. So the station should be located as close to the center as logically possible and be designed as an inter or multi modal station where people have the choice of what transit to take. I think a light rail around Madison connecting to this station is a good idea because once people arrive from the HSR they feel that they have arrived in Madison. Adding an extra trip from the airport is not the arrival experience that encourages ridership in the intermediate distance; people will drive in order to feel like they arrive where they need to be.
I am not filmier with the location that Mr. Gore proposes, but local people usually know best. The train platforms will need to be on the order of 1400 feet long for HSR, but a lot of these problems can be solved with creative solutions.
What the WDOT should really do is support a design competition for the new station to bring in ideas and spur conversation about the best solution.